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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Ridley @ a safe distance‏ @11rcombs 18 Sep 2018
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      Ridley @ a safe distance Retweeted Andrea Pessino

      this thread contains quite a bit of heavy bullshit it talks about how Rust is too complex to learn-by-doing (and that even the official _book_ on it isn't enough to understand the language) as if that's a _good thing_https://twitter.com/AndreaPessino/status/1042120425415700480 …

      Ridley @ a safe distance added,

      Andrea Pessino @AndreaPessino
      A THREAD ABOUT LEARNING THE RUST PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE @rustlang Rust is a practical solution to concrete problems that have hindered progress in software development for the last two decades. It is a leap forward in potential performance, scalability and productivity.
      Show this thread
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    2. Ridley @ a safe distance‏ @11rcombs 18 Sep 2018
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      it also argues that you shouldn't bind to code written in other languages and, okay, have fun on your island over there, the rest of us are gonna be over here shipping code

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    3. Ridley @ a safe distance‏ @11rcombs 18 Sep 2018
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      it also contains the phrase "do without a debugger – you will not need it for a good while" and ahahahahahahaha

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    4. Ridley @ a safe distance‏ @11rcombs 18 Sep 2018
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      if your language is difficult for newbies to pick up and understand, that's _a problem with your language_ like, it's a problem other languages have too (you won't hear me saying C++ is easy), but that doesn't somehow make it a positive aspect

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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    5. Ridley @ a safe distance‏ @11rcombs 18 Sep 2018
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      like, this guy's arguing that you should read _three entire reference books_ before you start writing your own code and ahahahahahahaha also he has no idea how to write a damn twitter thread, these tweets are split at random mid-sentence

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    6. Ridley @ a safe distance‏ @11rcombs 18 Sep 2018
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      also while C++ has a lot of complexity, and _certainly_ has a lot of awkward edge cases and footguns, almost everything you're likely to use is built on top of a few basic core mechanics that are easy to understand

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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    7. Ridley @ a safe distance‏ @11rcombs 18 Sep 2018
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      like, you can build ridiculously complex things on top of templates, but the template system really isn't that complex in itself you can look at pretty much any standard type and understand what's going on under the hood

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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    8. Yuri‏ @yuriks 18 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @11rcombs

      I feel like you can say pretty much the same thing about almost any concept though. It's usually the implications or combinations of them that are complex. I certainly was able to just stumble my way into knowing Rust so I don't think it's that special

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    9. Ridley @ a safe distance‏ @11rcombs 18 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @yuriks

      to be clear I don't know how complex rust actually is as compared to anything else; I haven't used it myself I just don't think "well you're gonna have to read these 3 books and then you'll have the gist and be able to get started" should be reasonable advice, and I hope it's not

      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    10. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @11rcombs @yuriks

      The issue with Rust is that it's arguably harder to learn as an experienced programmer. Like he says, I'm used to skimming the guide/examples and jumping right in to writing complex code in $newlanguage. That doesn't work with Rust.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Sep 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @11rcombs @yuriks

      Simple examples are easy, and my first Rust program was actually a moderately complex socket proxy/mux thing which wasn't too hard to write. But now I'm trying to design a key-value store abstraction layer for a large project in Rust and still haven't figured out the lifetimes.

      10:50 PM - 18 Sep 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @11rcombs @yuriks

          Jumping in the deep end is fine with most other languages, but it hurts more with Rust. Then again, it's not like I've tried, say, Haskell.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @11rcombs @yuriks

          But I *get* why Rust is like this - what it's trying to do is truly novel. And I also know I can BS my way through it by using tools other languages use instead (e.g. reference counting and GCing all the things) in Rust, but I'm trying not to.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
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        2. Ridley @ a safe distance‏ @11rcombs 18 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @yuriks

          my impression has been that the issue is that other languages (esp. C++) tend to expose that kind of complexity in obvious ways, so it's reasonably easy to understand, while in Rust it's just kinda magic

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Sep 2018
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          Replying to @11rcombs @yuriks

          The thing is typically a language either makes behind-the-scenes compromises for accessibility (Python: single-threaded/GIL, everything reference counted) or just relies on the programmer knowing what they're doing (C++).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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