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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. hedge.txt | Mostly Inactive, except when not‏ @hedgeberg 17 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @JaceCear

      i mean, I used to do silicon-level circuit design and layout, and architecture design. both at separate points, mind you, but i know the problem pretty well. the issue is that simple hardware is slow hardware, and asking for a complete architecture redesign is no small thing.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. hedge.txt | Mostly Inactive, except when not‏ @hedgeberg 17 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @hedgeberg @JaceCear

      Like, it's hard to overstate the benefit of modern architecture changes. pipeline improvements, specex, etc, have made hardware /drastically/ faster by reducing fundamental bottlenecks. It's a tall order to ask people to go back to that level of simplicity.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. hedge.txt | Mostly Inactive, except when not‏ @hedgeberg 17 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @hedgeberg @JaceCear

      That being said, my "ideal" solution to architecture problems in general isn't to fix architecture problems, its to have a physically separate introspection processor. One which is cheap, simple, open source, and replacable, which runs a watchdog firmware that monitors the CPU.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. hedge.txt | Mostly Inactive, except when not‏ @hedgeberg 17 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @hedgeberg @JaceCear

      It's the easiest way to fix these flaws: have a fundamentally separate SoC with a small attack surface in a purely management role, which is responsible for confirming main CPU's behavior is in line with expectations. Like ME, but external and auditable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @hedgeberg @JaceCear

      How would this work? If it has to monitor everything the main CPU does, it has to be as powerful as the main CPU. If it doesn't, then you could make the main CPU do evil things that it wouldn't catch.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. Luke  📡⇄ 🚀⇆ 🛰️‏ @siriusfox 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @hedgeberg @JaceCear

      It wouldn’t be to different from monitoring software currently used. The goal is detection of malicious activity, so if you can do classification and identification fast enough you don’t need to replicate the CPU.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @siriusfox @hedgeberg @JaceCear

      I mean, we all know antivirus doesn't work. Reactive technologies are great and all, but how would you fundamentally distinguish malicious behavior from normal operation besides known signatures?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Luke  📡⇄ 🚀⇆ 🛰️‏ @siriusfox 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @hedgeberg @JaceCear

      I am similarly lost as to the how, but I’m given the impression that it is already employed in some high security environments. I was once told in avionics systems the working assumption is an attacker is already inside, and may have rooted one of the computers onboard.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Luke  📡⇄ 🚀⇆ 🛰️‏ @siriusfox 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @siriusfox @marcan42 and

      The implication being multiple systems would filter each other’s data, identify strange behavior, and restart each other as required. I don’t think it’s easy or efficient, but like most attacks we gauge risk and acessabulity to the surface when we craft countermeasures.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @siriusfox @hedgeberg @JaceCear

      I think you're mixing together redundant voting systems and security. Having things like 3 identical systems doing the same thing and cross checking each other is common in avionics, but that's for reliability. If you're an attacker you just compromise all 3 at once.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @siriusfox and

      Ultimately you could try to have something like multiple independent implementations of the same process to safeguard against individual bugs, but that kind of approach isn't really going to fly (no pun intended) for general-purpose software.

      1:31 PM - 18 Aug 2018
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        2. Luke  📡⇄ 🚀⇆ 🛰️‏ @siriusfox 18 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @hedgeberg @JaceCear

          I completely agree. I suspect that limited introspection can identify a reasonable number of attacks in progress though.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @siriusfox @hedgeberg @JaceCear

          We already have those kinds of defenses, though. It's the grsecurity approach: panic the system at first sign of trouble. If an attack fails you can detect it; if it succeeds you won't notice it though. But software is buggy enough that you end up with many false positives.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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