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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. SEGFAULT (Lauren)‏ @altsegcat 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      How does it behave if you plug it into a female USB 3.0 jack, where those pins actually connect?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @altsegcat

      It works as USB 2.0. USB 3.0 isn't going to exactly think that some analog audio is a proper SuperSpeed negotiation, and as soon as USB 2.0 negotiation starts it shuts down the audio/status output anyway.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. SEGFAULT (Lauren)‏ @altsegcat 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Interesting. I find the idea of using spare USB 3 pins on the host side for a side channel an interesting idea for adding a debug channel etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. SEGFAULT (Lauren)‏ @altsegcat 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @altsegcat @marcan42

      The host initiates 3.0 negotiation, right? So if a device is plugged in it would ignore garbage coming out of the 3 lines until it was told to negotiate?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @altsegcat

      I actually don't know how SuperSpeed negotiation works, looking it up now.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @altsegcat

      Ugh, this is worse than USB 2.0. I don't know what I expected. So there's some low-frequency signaling they use to negotiate, but it's completely silly (and they didn't even future-proof it so they had to tack on another modulation scheme to advertise SuperSpeedPlus).

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @altsegcat

      You'd think after *three* different signaling speeds with tacked on "hey I'm actually a newer standard" backdoor signals (HS chirp last time) they'd have learned to stick a freaking capability byte in there somewhere, but no.pic.twitter.com/VcM12pyG4d

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @altsegcat

      Seriously, what the hell is this shit. Running RS485 with smaller signal levels for low-power initial negotiation would've made 20 times more sense than this mess.pic.twitter.com/9oMrJegueY

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. SEGFAULT (Lauren)‏ @altsegcat 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42

      Well the U is for unintelligible, clearly.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. SEGFAULT (Lauren)‏ @altsegcat 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @altsegcat @marcan42

      But we're stuck with it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @altsegcat

      Anyway it looks like negotiation is actually intiated by *both* sides at once. The transmitter is supposed to detect the receiver's termination impedance (!) and then initiate LFPS polling, and then both sides kind of meet in the middle. I don't even.

      4:40 AM - 18 Aug 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. SEGFAULT (Lauren)‏ @altsegcat 18 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42

          This feels like a standard compromised into existance by host and device manufacturers arguing that silicon is expensive, and they don't want to implement that, let the other end do it. Now both ends do it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 18 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @altsegcat

          I'm starting to think the standard is designed to keep everything as complicated as possible to guarantee that nobody not paying money to USB-IF can even begin to understand it and get working silicon out.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Show replies
        1. SEGFAULT (Lauren)‏ @altsegcat 18 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42

          Step 2: Replace the LPFS logic with a uart, not trying to negotiate. See if anything breaks

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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