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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

      This stuff hurts people trying to learn the language, because instead of doing what's natural and obvious, things will work until suddenly they don't. The person learning will be bit by bugs, and will be told "that's just the way it is", but it shouldn't *be* that way.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

      You work on TC39, so suggestion: change toString so that any numbers ≥ 2⁵³ or ≤ -2⁵³ are stringified in e-notation, or, alternatively, with the full integer digit expansion and a trailing ".". This makes it clear when precision is limited, without phantom/incorrect digits.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Mathias Bynens‏Verified account @mathias 20 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @kentaromiura and

      I doubt that’s feasible. I bet it would break lots of existing code. @littledan

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Daniel Ehrenberg 艾小丹‏ @littledan 20 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @mathias @marcan42 and

      toString always outputs a string which, when parsed as a Number, rounds to the same value. There are multiple strings which would round to the same Number. I think ending it with a bunch of 0's is often more intuitive, which would motivate that choice.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Daniel Ehrenberg 艾小丹‏ @littledan 20 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @littledan @mathias and

      If you'd like to see the fun floating point bits, if you're trying to learn how floats work, you can do that with Number.prototype.toPrecision, toExponential, toFixed, which omit the logic to put 0's at the end.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 20 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @littledan @mathias and

      My issue is the lack of any evidence that the number is a float; that rounding occurred. JS is in the awkward position of using floats for the use cases of ints. Presumably this drove the decision to have toString output just digits when the float is an exact integer value.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 20 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @littledan and

      But then toString goes and *rounds* larger ints - at which point they're not floats trying to be ints any more - yet it still outputs just digits. And that is just confusing and messy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 20 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @littledan and

      Sure, there are ways to get the full value out. My point here is that the default behavior is unintuitive and misleading in this particular case. Nobody expects an integer to have been rounded. Having to deal with the 53-bit ceiling is bad enough; toString hiding it is worse!

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Daniel Ehrenberg 艾小丹‏ @littledan 20 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

      Unfortunately, the fact that JavaScript Numbers are IEEE 64-bit floats is just something JS devs will have to learn. I don't think toString is hiding anything here--ending in a bunch of zeros implies not as much precision as if it ended in a lot of non-zero digits.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 20 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @dougallj @littledan and

      This is even worse than I thought. So it isn't even consistent about how many digits it rounds to. It just rounds as much as it can get away with for any *specific* number. 00→00 08→10 16→20 24→24 32→30 40→40 48→50 56→56 64→60 72→70 80→80 88→90 96→100 WTF.

      5:42 AM - 20 Jun 2018
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      • Andrew Tоxen Alexey Kulaev EdTheNerd
      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 20 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @dougallj and

          I like the "60" case, which is exactly in between two actual values. So to interpret JS's toString output and undo the damage you not only need to know what precision you're dealing with exactly, but also float rounding edge case rules. I don't even.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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