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marcan42's profile
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
Hector Martin
@marcan42

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Hector Martin

@marcan42

If it ain't broke, I'll fix it! I'm porting Linux to Apple Silicon Macs at @AsahiLinux. http://patreon.com/marcan  | http://github.com/sponsors/marcan 

Tokyo, Japan
marcan.st
Joined May 2009

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    1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @hedgeberg @scanlime

      Hector Martin Retweeted Hector Martin

      Also I just stumbled upon this one, and, seriously, I don't even. Who comes up with this stuff?https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1008999468492918784 …

      Hector Martin added,

      Hector Martin @marcan42
      Yet another JS WTF. JS uses 64-bit floats for numbers, but it *lies* when displaying them. 0x4000000000000000 is 4611686018427387904 and is *perfectly* represented as a float. But JS renders it as 4611686018427388000, because that has fewer significant digits in decimal?! pic.twitter.com/xbYbqMP9mY
      Show this thread
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. kentaromiura―クリスティアン‏ @kentaromiura 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @hedgeberg @scanlime

      Js follows IEEE 754, quite sure that's expected behaviour

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @kentaromiura @hedgeberg @scanlime

      Hector Martin Retweeted Hector Martin

      Nope, it doesn't. This is *specified* in IEEE 754. JS is violating the spec.https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1009008156322623489 …

      Hector Martin added,

      Hector Martin @marcan42
      Here's the IEEE 754 spec explicitly saying conversions to integer must use the exact integer when the value is representable in both formats. JS is violating the IEEE 754 standard. Please don't make excuses about different representations for the same float. This is *broken*. pic.twitter.com/pUEdUCxGEd
      Show this thread
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Mathias Bynens‏Verified account @mathias 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @kentaromiura and

      I think you’re confused about what double-precision floating-point means. See: https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-ecmascript-language-types-number-type … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-precision_floating-point_format#IEEE_754_double-precision_binary_floating-point_format:_binary64 … https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2018/05/bigint … https://mathiasbynens.be/demo/integer-range … For integers, JavaScript uses 53 bits to store the digits and + 1 for the sign.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @mathias @kentaromiura and

      I think you're confused about what "integer" means. The 64-bit IEEE754 floating point value represented by the (big-endian) bytes 43d0000000000000 *represents* the int 4611686018427387904. It does *not* represent the int 4611686018427388000. The latter is not representable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

      You can *round* 4611686018427388000 to the nearest representable integer in that format, which is 4611686018427387904. But there is no reason to conjure up 4611686018427388000 when converting back to integer. That is just wrong and broken.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

      Yes, the ECMAScript spec says toString must be implemented in this (broken) way. This is insane, and no other sensible language does this. It is misleading and wrong. https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-tostring-applied-to-the-number-type …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

      Numbers are floats in Lua <5.3 too, but it never pretends floats are integers that they aren't. Smaller exact-int floats are stringified as integers, then after a threshold (lower than the 53-bit limit) it switches to exp notation. string.format will give you all the digits.pic.twitter.com/cimunNayeM

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

      Ultimately this is a problem of the principle of least surprise. To any reasonable human, a string of digits with no decimal point is an *integer*. However, to JavaScript, it's a *float*. JS is abusing this point to produce unexpected results from toString.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

      Yes, the output string equals the float when spat back into a JS interpreter, but that's besides the point. It's not what a *human* expects. This is like the people complaining about things like undefined behavior in C. Except the latter is at least often useful for performance.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

      This stuff hurts people trying to learn the language, because instead of doing what's natural and obvious, things will work until suddenly they don't. The person learning will be bit by bugs, and will be told "that's just the way it is", but it shouldn't *be* that way.

      4:05 AM - 19 Jun 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Hector Martin‏ @marcan42 19 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @mathias and

          You work on TC39, so suggestion: change toString so that any numbers ≥ 2⁵³ or ≤ -2⁵³ are stringified in e-notation, or, alternatively, with the full integer digit expansion and a trailing ".". This makes it clear when precision is limited, without phantom/incorrect digits.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        2. Mathias Bynens‏Verified account @mathias 20 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @marcan42 @kentaromiura and

          I doubt that’s feasible. I bet it would break lots of existing code. @littledan

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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