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macrocephalopod

@macrocephalopod

Paul Allen, Vice President M&A, Pierce & Pierce (Sie/Hir) | Vegan | Silence is Violence | Women’s Rights Are Human Rights | ACAB (Assigned Cephalopod At Birth)

Joined December 2020

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    1. Lily.wav‏ @nope_its_lily 25 Oct 2021

      What method tends to be the easiest to back out ivols from American, dividend-producing options? I've been using broker ivols for a while now, but I'd like to get my hands dirty building an SSVI surface directly from option prices.

      4 replies 0 retweets 44 likes
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    2. Lily.wav‏ @nope_its_lily 25 Oct 2021

      Step 1 was going to be using a good risk-free rate for the option lifetime. The general consensus seems to be an IBOR, so FRED has that and I can match the option tenor to the nearest rate possible there. It's kind of gone now, so I was going to use T yields too/ interpolate.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    3. Lily.wav‏ @nope_its_lily 25 Oct 2021

      Step 2 - the hardest part seems to be the dividend yields. You can of course for like 95% of cases take the discrete dividends and make a continuous implied yield, but you need a dividend forecast. In practice is it fine to use the historical trailing dividend yield (12mo)?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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    4. Lily.wav‏ @nope_its_lily 25 Oct 2021

      I guess this is a question mostly directed at folks like @TheSpeculator0 @bennpeifert @darjohn25 Another idea would be to use comparables (e.g. dividend changes over the company peer group) or pay for a fancy dividend forecasting service, but at that point I just give up and use

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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    5. Lily.wav‏ @nope_its_lily 25 Oct 2021

      broker ivols anyway.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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    6. Lily.wav‏ @nope_its_lily 25 Oct 2021

      I know you can hack using the forward -prices to skip the interest rate and dividend yield nonsense since that's baked into the price of the forward itself, but there isn't (at least any exchange-traded) forwards on single stocks, just the indices.

      3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
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    7. Benn "DJ D-Vol" Eifert‏ @bennpeifert 25 Oct 2021
      Replying to @nope_its_lily

      always compute forwards first from put/call parity bounds

      3 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    8. Benn "DJ D-Vol" Eifert‏ @bennpeifert 25 Oct 2021
      Replying to @bennpeifert @nope_its_lily

      (don't mess with dividend forecasting etc, like, the market tells you the answer, and if you're different from the market, you're almost certainly wrong)

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    9. Lily.wav‏ @nope_its_lily 25 Oct 2021
      Replying to @bennpeifert

      I encountered that method and it makes sense to me, but now essentially you have two unknowns - the shape of the vol smile for a given tenor and the implied dividend yield over the lifetime of the option (although it might be even more complex than that given the early exercise)

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      macrocephalopod‏ @macrocephalopod 25 Oct 2021
      Replying to @nope_its_lily @bennpeifert

      You don’t need to know the implied dividend yield if you’re pricing using the forward (at least, this is true for European options — not sure about American)

      9:11 AM - 25 Oct 2021
      • 3 Likes
      • Robert Martin Jessica Nutt Well-anchored Inflation Ruffian
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. macrocephalopod‏ @macrocephalopod 25 Oct 2021
          Replying to @macrocephalopod @nope_its_lily @bennpeifert

          But if you do need to know it, you know the spot price, implied forward, and interest rate, so you can solve for it trivially.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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