If I buy futures I am effectively long stock financed at wherever the lending rate clears (in practice ~LIBOR). If I buy SPY I need to get financing from my broker, who will charge me ~LIBOR + spread. The spread is responsible for the cost of carry difference.
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Replying to @macrocephalopod @FREAK0NAUT and
Every derivative introduces a new parameter required to price it in a model, and the derivative becomes a way to trade that parameter. In the case of options the parameter is implied volatility. For futures/forwards the parameter is the basis (~dividends minus financing)
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Replying to @macrocephalopod @FREAK0NAUT and
Prob silly Q, but why cant you use cash to buy SPY? Why would you need financing from broker? Very insightful. Broker spread drives cost of carry. Anything that offsets the benefit of futures? Since they have certain risk SPY itself lacks right?
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Replying to @M1tchRosenthal @macrocephalopod and
Imagine a scenario where you are a Mm and you have $100 million and your portfolio margining is only $100 million but your long SpY position was $1billion and your short futures position (or combo) was short notional $1 Billion, you still need ‘Cash’ to fund the spy
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Replying to @jam_croissant @macrocephalopod and
I see, so basically it's better to avoid using cash when possible, since it may be needed as collateral / margin for other positions (like futures, which can be a more efficient way to express a trade), assuming Im following
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Replying to @M1tchRosenthal @macrocephalopod and
Collateral is different than financing.
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Replying to @jam_croissant @macrocephalopod and
Ah true, Im a little tripped up here. So I think scenario is: You have 100mil in cash, &100mil in borrowed $ (margin) You are long 1bil of SPY, which costs 1bil You are short 1bil notional of SPYfut, which costs the futures margin From here Im a bit lost.
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Replying to @M1tchRosenthal @jam_croissant and
It sounds like total funds to use are 200mil. The cost of the futures position is Z. So we only have (200mil - Z) left to cover the stock position, but thats not enough cuz it costs 1bil. Is that why we need broker financing?
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Replying to @M1tchRosenthal @jam_croissant and
Essentially yeah. Stocks (including ETFs) are cash instruments, when you buy them *someone* needs to hand over cash in exchange. If you do it on margin, that just means your broker is handing over the cash and charging you for it (effectively they are lending you the cash).
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Replying to @macrocephalopod @M1tchRosenthal and
Futures are a derivative, not a cash instrument, when you enter the futures position no cash immediately changes hands (other than margin) because the value of the futures contract at the point you enter it is zero.
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Say margin is 5% on both stocks and futures. You have $100m. You go long $1bn of SPY and short $1bn of ES futures. You put down $50m of margin with your broker to cover risk on the SPY position and $50m with the exchange to cover risk on the ES futures.
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Replying to @macrocephalopod @M1tchRosenthal and
The futures hedge the SPY so you have no market risk - whenever you lose on the SPY position you win on your ES short, and you get cash in your exchange margin account that you can use to satisfy your broker's margin demands.
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Replying to @macrocephalopod @M1tchRosenthal and
Say interest rates are 2%. Your broker may charge you 2.1% for financing, so they will require you to send them $58,333 every day as interest on the loan they are giving you. You get that money because you sold the futures at a higher price than the cash index, and as the futures
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