Poll: Suppose the U.S. government raised funds w/ a special treasury security that pays a coupon guaranteed to be equal to the aggregate dividend of the S&P 500. Right now, that's ~$14 per quarter, $56 for the year. What price would the treasury security trade at?
-
-
Replying to @Jesse_Livermore
It's an inflation-linked perpetual bond backed by the US government with less vol and more duration that the S&P, so assuming it was a ~negligible component of the debt structure I expect it would well above the current SPX level, probably with a yield around 1%, so that's 6k
8 replies 1 retweet 62 likes -
Replying to @quantian1 @Jesse_Livermore
The default risk is embedded in what’s paid by companies in the S&P 500. There is no risk to what has already been received or what will be received via div. A S&P dividend bond would be priced lower if the bond was issued by a company vs treasury, but 100% discount to S&P 500.
2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes -
Replying to @EconomPic @Jesse_Livermore
Imagine if the government promised to pay the yield on an BBB bond index. Would that promise trade above or below the price level of the index now that you've eliminated the default risk? Why would that be different if you're paying a dividend yield instead?
3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes -
Replying to @quantian1 @Jesse_Livermore
The default risk is embedded in the cash flows that the high yield bonds pay out! If they default and don’t pay, the “government backed” fund doesn’t pay them either because it pays the exact same cash flows.
1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes -
With the bond you suffer a loss of principal when it defaults. With the government security you don’t — the bond is just replaced with another one and the yield is ~unchanged. You have the cash flows without most of the default risk (only the coupon is at risk, not the principal)
2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes -
The principal is reduced because of uncertainty or elimination of the cash flows... those cash flows are identical in the government version so the value would be reduced as well.
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes -
Hmm, maybe there is some confusion about how the dividend is paid. Does it pay principal x div yield of index? Or does it pay dollar value of SPX dividend?
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes -
The EPS or dividend you see in $$ terms for the SPX is based on the EPS yield or dividend yield of all companies within the index x the SPX Index value at the time. What you asked if it’s A or B are the same.
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
No, one is (SPX dividend / SPX) x SPX and the other is (SPX dividend / SPX) x $100 - makes a massive difference as in the 1st case the coupon falls when SPX falls, in the second case it doesn’t.
-
-
Ah... I see what you’re saying now. So in this version, the latter version receives no benefit from index appreciation either (other than ability to pay out more dividends)? So big issue there are companies that grow and don’t pay dividends.
2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes -
Yes exactly.
0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
End of conversation
New conversation -
Loading seems to be taking a while.
Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.