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lynaghk's profile
Kevin Lynagh
Kevin Lynagh
Kevin Lynagh
@lynaghk

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Kevin Lynagh

@lynaghk

I design and build things. Mostly software, sometimes furniture, and a few small buildings once.

Amsterdam, The Netherlands
kevinlynagh.com
Joined January 2012

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    Kevin Lynagh‏ @lynaghk Aug 27

    Notes on designing tables of relational data for presentation: https://kevinlynagh.com/notes/2018-08-25-relational-tables/ … I.e., what would a "grammar of graphics for tables" enable? Y'all know of any good prior art in this space? /cc @hadley @scheidegger

    10:43 AM - 27 Aug 2018
    • 2 Retweets
    • 21 Likes
    • Carlos Galarza Wade Dominic Basio Brian Zindler Co-op Source Homer Strong Pedro Girardi Kovas Boguta Peter Deffebach
    3 replies 2 retweets 21 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Carlos Scheidegger‏ @scheidegger Aug 27
        Replying to @lynaghk @Hadley

        Deep question - no quick takes from me, I’ll have to think about it

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Kevin Lynagh‏ @lynaghk Aug 27
        Replying to @scheidegger @Hadley

        Sorry to bother you @hadley, I meant to cc @hadleywickham. (Though still open to your thoughts if you happen to be into table design...)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Carlos Scheidegger‏ @scheidegger Aug 27
        Replying to @lynaghk @hadleywickham

        Some thoughts - I think this is a fundamentally harder problem than that of a grammar of graphics, because tables are _less_ constrained than graphics.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Carlos Scheidegger‏ @scheidegger Aug 27
        Replying to @scheidegger @lynaghk @hadleywickham

        You mentioned ordering towards the end of your piece, and I think that the difficulty ordering brings is at the hard of the matter: it's a forced choice that has got nothing to do with data. Tabular presentations are rife with this.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Carlos Scheidegger‏ @scheidegger Aug 27
        Replying to @scheidegger @lynaghk @hadleywickham

        I think the best guess at a minimal place to make progress is to try and figure out natural ways to present grouping (which you might be able to infer from hierarchical foreign keys induced by multiple joins, etc). Unfortunately, ...

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Carlos Scheidegger‏ @scheidegger Aug 27
        Replying to @scheidegger @lynaghk @hadleywickham

        I think you'll ultimately need a system that knows a lot about the relational model in order to make progress. The DB people smarter than me might like the challenge, though. @sirrice, @arnabdotorg, @adityagp ?

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      8. Kevin Lynagh‏ @lynaghk Aug 28
        Replying to @scheidegger @hadleywickham and

        Agreed, that's why I think it might be most productive to start in the context of Alloy. Re: ordering, there are at least two "free" dimensions: that of individual rows (atoms), as well as the hierarchical order of nested joins.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. James Scott-Brown‏ @jamesscottbrown Sep 15
        Replying to @lynaghk @Hadley @scheidegger

        Have you seen @eirikbakke's work on tabular interfaces for relational databases? https://people.csail.mit.edu/ebakke/ 

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Kevin Lynagh‏ @lynaghk Sep 16
        Replying to @jamesscottbrown @scheidegger @eirikbakke

        Yeah! From the videos it seems quite well executed for an academic/research project. Seems more GUI/product focused than a programmatic library like ggplot.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Eirik Bakke‏ @eirikbakke Sep 16
        Replying to @lynaghk @jamesscottbrown @scheidegger

        Yes, definitively related work! Behind the SIEUFERD user interface there is in fact a "grammar" that fully describes each presentation. It is seen in Table 2 from https://people.csail.mit.edu/ebakke/research/sieuferd_sigmod2016.pdf … (query definition) and Table 1 from https://people.csail.mit.edu/ebakke/research/reportlayout_infovis2013.pdf … (stylesheet definition).

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Hadley Wickham‏Verified account @hadleywickham Aug 27
        Replying to @lynaghk @scheidegger

        You should talk to @riannone because he’s been thinking about this lately

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Gabe Becker‏ @groundwalkergmb Aug 27
        Replying to @hadleywickham @lynaghk and

        I believe @thosjleeper was also looking at things in this space, and probably less related but @haozhu233 looked at some things wrt to display only in kableExtra I think

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Hao Zhu‏ @haozhu233 Aug 27
        Replying to @groundwalkergmb @hadleywickham and

        In my JSM talk, I made things a bit more conceptualized. Just my personal view though. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/e/2PACX-1vS6tmEHjBAKrw6T2QyLMqNzsMR71P4cnp8O0OqxaX9lDC0ob5AY897sWqrirWckLX-Bjq3dMBw_-Nk1/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000&slide=id.g3e5d444fa7_0_75 …pic.twitter.com/RwwoeNSiA0

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      5. Thomas J. Leeper‏ @thosjleeper Aug 27
        Replying to @haozhu233 @groundwalkergmb and

        Sorry I missed this! Looks useful!

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      6. End of conversation

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