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lymanstoneky's profile
Lyman Stone 石來民 🦬🦬🦬
Lyman Stone 石來民 🦬🦬🦬
Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬
@lymanstoneky

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Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬

@lymanstoneky

石來民 Lutheran. Husband. Dad. Kentuckian. Demographer. @DemographicNTEL @FamStudies @AEI @NovakFellows . lymanrstone at gmail dot com

KY-DC-HK-QC
demographicintel.com
Joined July 2012

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    Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

    A chart I've been mulling over for a while: The inflation-adjusted cost to raise a child, as reported by USDA, has been rising for decades. Ergo, cost to raise a child is rising. Average personal income is rising even faster. Cost to raise a child as years of income is falling!pic.twitter.com/AwMRjXqyGc

    1:28 AM - 15 Jan 2019
    • 36 Retweets
    • 118 Likes
    • AugustineAllardCarr lika moloko Jnki Laschet derangement syndrome✌️ Lebron Jameson Lynn Andersen VictoriaMae Strahan Cadell Ryan Campbell
    14 replies 36 retweets 118 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        This puts a little bit of perspective into parenting trends. For all that parenting is getting more and more intensive, it's actually getting *less* expensive as a share of income.

        3 replies 2 retweets 19 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        This puts in perspective the idea that financial burdens are the main driver of low fertility. To the extent it's true, it's not because parenting got pricier. It's because other stuff got pricier.

        1 reply 5 retweets 22 likes
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      4. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Other stuff, that is, which is either more desired, or more necessary, like healthcare or a college degree.

        2 replies 3 retweets 22 likes
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      5. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Or, it's because stuff which did NOT get pricier got more desirable to consume. I'm thinking here particularly of international travel.

        1 reply 4 retweets 24 likes
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      6. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        To be clear, I don't think there's nothing "there" in terms of the cost story. Time-costs have risen, but are a bit harder to graph. And even if cost/income has fallen, childcare costs/entertainment costs may have fallen. Or childcare costs/consumption activity costs.

        1 reply 2 retweets 9 likes
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      7. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        The cost of having a child *relative to other expenditures* may have risen, even if the cost *relative to income* has fallen. It's just striking to me *how much it has fallen.*

        1 reply 4 retweets 18 likes
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      8. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        However, this should give you pause on the "THE LABOR MARKET DOESN'T MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A FAMILY" hysterics. It takes fewer years of income to raise a child today than it did in 1960. A LOT fewer.

        1 reply 11 retweets 19 likes
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      9. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        And I should note, USDA's method here isn't to make some abstracted cost of a child. Basically, they review *what families actually spend* on kids, and take that as the norm. So this trend *fully incorporates* changes in parent expectations about stuff to buy for kids.

        3 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
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      10. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        In other words, in terms of how many hours a parent would have to work to pay for a child's upbringing in the "normal way" of their time, it has gotten EASIER to raise a family, NOT harder.

        1 reply 1 retweet 11 likes
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      11. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        This doesn't mean there's no labor market story to be told. It just means the story isn't, "The labor market simply doesn't provide enough money to raise kids."

        1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
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      12. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        It's more like, "The labor market doesn't provide enough money to pay for healthcare, student loans, smartphones, internet, and kids." I'll cc @WilcoxNMP and @oren_cass and @hamandcheese here as this probably interests them.

        5 replies 4 retweets 25 likes
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      13. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        By the way, I list those specific categories, because according to the Consumer Expenditure Survey, those are the specific spending categories that have risen the most since 2000. And also "Social services, nonprofits, and religious institutions" as well as "Foreign travel"

        1 reply 1 retweet 9 likes
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      14. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        The fact that foreign travel is one of the biggest gainers in terms of American consumption habits since 2000 is *chef kiss*.

        2 replies 2 retweets 16 likes
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      15. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬 Retweeted

        Good question. My income metric is "Average personal income." So it's simply the total amount of national personal income, divided by the number of people. https://twitter.com/tudsy/status/1085112902481338368 …

        Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬 added,

        This Tweet is unavailable.
        1 reply 3 retweets 7 likes
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      16. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Generally speaking, household income in a 2-adult household, whether 2-earner or otherwise, is MUCH higher than average personal income. So this is overstating the years of a family's labor required to pay for a kid.

        1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
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      17. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Now, here is the same graph, but instead of "Average personal income" it's "Median weekly adult male earnings." Suddenly, voila, you see the problem. Note that this data doesn't go back to 1960, just 1979. Also yes I am doing a dual axis here so sue me.pic.twitter.com/xyeOwVFFGO

        4 replies 3 retweets 15 likes
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      18. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        So VOILA, there's your problem! The problem isn't "families don't have enough income." The income is there! It's just not there ***in the form of median male wages***. It arrives to families in the form of female wages, transfer payments, or non-labor income.

        4 replies 6 retweets 14 likes
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      19. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Or in the form of non wage/salary income, i.e. freelancers, business ownership, investment income, etc.

        1 reply 3 retweets 5 likes
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      20. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        But to be clear, the big driver here is "female income." Now, it's widely demonstrated that men and women get married at lower rates when male incomes are lower relative to females. This is true even in highly egalitarian societies.

        1 reply 3 retweets 12 likes
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      21. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        But that's now a very different argument, quite far afield from the simple household costs argument. You're now verging into the "culture matters" terrain, a place where, whatever our other disagreements, I am in agreement with @oren_cass for example. It does matter.

        1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
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      22. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        My broad point is just to note that ***the rising cost of childrearing cannot in fact account for any share of lower fertility without a lot of other variables included***. You get into like a relative price/shift share type argument pretty fast, and then you're into values again

        3 replies 2 retweets 6 likes
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      23. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        IN OTHER WORDS: The labor market definitely allows people to raise children. In fact it allows it easier than any time in history. It just isn't conducive to people settling down, getting married, and *feeling* secure.

        3 replies 3 retweets 20 likes
        Show this thread
      24. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        I should note here that weekly earnings are a popular measure for folks aiming to paint a dire picture. We can use a different measure: average income among people of a given sex earning under $250k.

        1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
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      25. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Here's what that graph looks like. As you can see, for males, it's about flat. For females, cost of childbearing has fallen dramatically relative to income.pic.twitter.com/vznrQM6jpY

        1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
        Show this thread
      26. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬 Retweeted William Middleton  🇺🇸 🇮🇹 🇬🇷

        Got this question. No, this does not factor in tax credits and stuff like that.https://twitter.com/WMiddleton1837/status/1085118978798878721 …

        Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬 added,

        William Middleton  🇺🇸 🇮🇹 🇬🇷 @WMiddleton1837
        Replying to @lymanstoneky
        Does this analysis factor in things like child tax credits?
        1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
        Show this thread
      27. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Oh, and I should add, those lines are for people ages 20-60.

        1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
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      28. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        What if we make it even more precisely targeted? Let's do people making somewhere between the poverty line and $100,000: so plausibly middle class. Here, we see that there was been a rise in cost from 2000 to the early 2010s. But it's since fallen.pic.twitter.com/LTg6mOVm7E

        3 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
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      29. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        So again, it just isn't the case that family incomes are too low to support having kids. Cost of raising a child relative to incomes is well within historic norms.

        2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
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      30. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Here's if we instead look at the family income of married families with incomes between poverty and $150k. As you can see, the relative income cost of having a kid is about similar today as it was in the 1960s.pic.twitter.com/8J0I7VZa7Y

        2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
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      31. Lyman Stone 石來民  🦬 🦬 🦬‏ @lymanstoneky 15 Jan 2019

        Based on this measure, the golden age for child-rearing in terms of low costs was.... the late 1980s and early 1990s! Maybe that fits your priors. But I don't think that's what most people are arguing.

        2 replies 2 retweets 7 likes
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