Ordinary Banana

the ideology isn’t a straw man version of itself though

are you saying if I really believed that suffering is bad I’d commit mass genocide? seems counterproductive

Anti-natalism isn't "suffering is bad." "If suffering is bad the logical thing is to commit genocide" doesn't make sense. "If human life is of negative value the logical thing is to commit genocide" *does* make sense.

I can imagine a situation where I really *would* think human life wasn't worth living--say, if every human would be literally tortured from the day they were born, and I knew with absolute certainty that would never change. And in that case, I would support genocide.

The difference between that world and this one is that human joy *does*, in the balance, outweigh human suffering, life *is* worth living, human life *is* precious, etc.

not sure what the asterisks are doing but ok

... Am I misunderstanding the anti-natalist position? I thought that it was the life is of net-negative utility. Otherwise not sure what we've been arguing about.

oh no it’s that suffering and joy/pleasure/etc. aren’t commensurable and don’t trade off