I know of 2 regime changes which Confucian scholars valorised as regime's cruelty leading mandate being passed to more humane rulers. More often what would happen is ru would remonstrate with a wayward government, and either change their behaviour or be killed for their defiance.
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Replying to @lastpositivist
that's not nothing! how recent/distant are the examples you have in mind, historically?
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Replying to @AmneMachin @FemisMusic
Aye I think remonstration is (a) the best and most inspiring part of Ruist tradition, and (b) in both its successes and noble failures far more common than regime change - the point is surely that in a well ordered state something so dramatic should not be necessary.
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Replying to @lastpositivist @AmneMachin
it would be nice if you could change things by means other than murder! weird thing about US politics is that the commitment to political change via death goes for pretty much the entire political spectrum
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Replying to @FemisMusic @AmneMachin
The US frequently endorses regime change via bombs or assassins when working abroad (and there's cross party consensus on this), but at home at least there is - or was until worrying remarks of Trump towards the end of the campaign - a commitment to peaceful transition of power?
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Replying to @lastpositivist @AmneMachin
so yeah, depending on your politics, US people disagree about where violence can be performed (Third World, the hood) to whom (POC) and by whom (military, cops) but there don't tend to be many political persuasions opposed to violence as such. Quakers, SCLC are exceptions
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Replying to @FemisMusic @AmneMachin
Huh, speaking for myself I have always found the pacifistic sentiment and aversion to coercion to be one of the most inspiring features of Confucianism.
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Replying to @lastpositivist @AmneMachin
I dunno where I fall on that, but I do notice how everyone's answers to pacifists seem to boil down to "but isn't there a lot of murdering going on in the *real world*?" and it seems like they can ultimately just say "yeah, but doesn't that suck?"
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Replying to @FemisMusic @AmneMachin
Quite! Confucianism seems to, at times at least, have a too naive faith in moral suasion - Mengzi, for instance, sometimes seems to argue that a good regime is uninvadable, because surely the opposing armies would lay down the arms and refuse to kill if it meant opposing justice.
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But even if I don't endorse, I can at least feel inspired by the sentiment. Far rather be guided in my moral appraisal by these people for whom killing is a horror and barbarism than by the folk who are ever so keen to prove that they'd totally do violence *to the right people*.
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Replying to @lastpositivist @AmneMachin
especially since "the right people" to direct violence and abuse towards so often end up being whoever we're mad at at the moment, no matter who the slogans or principles identify as the ultimate enemy *stares at Killmonger fans*
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