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keith_ng's profile
Keith Ng
Keith Ng
Keith Ng
@keith_ng

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Keith Ng

@keith_ng

Data-plumber/word-baker: I think the unthinkable, the too-fiddly-to-think, and the too-thinkable-to-remember. B6BB 1706 A8AE 5E03 889C CF2F 5522 BB88 1468 8DF5

The Darkest Timeline
Joined June 2008

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    1. Eric Crampton‏ @EricCrampton Apr 27
      Replying to @lyon_anthony

      You can't make someone employ you.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
      Replying to @EricCrampton @lyon_anthony

      Virtually all employers would provide employment for money.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
      Replying to @keith_ng @EricCrampton @lyon_anthony

      Perhaps the reason there is no overlap re:campaigners is that employers are usually in a position of power, and instances where they have been coerced into employment is rare. Whereas women being coerced into sex is, ya know, the opposite of rare.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. Eric Crampton‏ @EricCrampton Apr 27
      Replying to @keith_ng @lyon_anthony

      Eric Crampton Retweeted

      https://twitter.com/damienmgrant/status/990046163582599168?s=19 …

      Eric Crampton added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
      Replying to @EricCrampton @lyon_anthony

      I stand by my words exactly as I wrote them: this is rare, whereas women being coerced for sex is the opposite of rare.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
      Replying to @keith_ng @EricCrampton @lyon_anthony

      But add to it the moral substance of the two kinds of "coercion" are fundamentally very, very, very different.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
      Replying to @keith_ng @EricCrampton @lyon_anthony

      And that the conflation of the two in the original post - a conceit that I've brought into by taking this thread even half seriously - is spurious and offensive.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    8. Eric Crampton‏ @EricCrampton Apr 27
      Replying to @keith_ng @lyon_anthony

      Nope. Original was on involuntary unemployment and involuntary celibacy. You brought in coerced alternatives.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
      Replying to @EricCrampton @lyon_anthony

      Fair enough. But the proffered solution to unemployment is generally training/labour laws/subsidies, whereas the proffered solution of incel is "something something change society so women have no choice but to have sex with us".

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Eric Crampton‏ @EricCrampton Apr 27
      Replying to @keith_ng @lyon_anthony

      Wasn't offering solutions!

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
      Replying to @EricCrampton @lyon_anthony

      You didn't have to though! The statement of the incel problem - "it's terrible that women won't have sex with us" - implies "...and we should make them" because that's what its proponents say. I'm saying that the casual *neglect* of that obvious implication is bad.

      9:13 PM - 27 Apr 2018
      • 5 Likes
      • Maddy 🌹 Johnny Silverpatch Anna 🌬 💀Prime Minister Judith Collins💀
      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Eric Crampton‏ @EricCrampton Apr 27
          Replying to @keith_ng @lyon_anthony

          Stop thinking solution space. Think rather on situation of person 5 years involuntarily in either scenario, what that does to that person, and what that does to potential for exit from that scenario.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
          Replying to @EricCrampton

          Sure, but if I thought about that, and considered them to be equally problematic (or even if I didn't), isn't the next step to think about the solution space?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
          Replying to @keith_ng @EricCrampton

          I mean, I could be a kleptomaniac and feel really frustrated and lacking in opportunities for self expression because it's illegal to steal, and we can consider my frustration without considering the solution space...

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Eric Crampton‏ @EricCrampton Apr 27
          Replying to @keith_ng

          Kelptomania is a little more rare

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
          Replying to @EricCrampton

          Heh. But the point is that a problem which inherently can only be solved by oppressing someone else is not really a legitimate problem in the sense of "hey maybe we should try to solve this".

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Eric Crampton‏ @EricCrampton Apr 27
          Replying to @keith_ng

          Not all problems have solutions

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Keith Ng‏ @keith_ng Apr 27
          Replying to @EricCrampton

          But there *is* a solution, explicitly stated by incels: to restructure society so women don't have social/economic/sexual opportunities outside of marriage to men. That presence of a stated, illegitimate solution is the defining feature here, not the lack of one.

          3 replies 2 retweets 9 likes
        9. Eric Crampton‏ @EricCrampton Apr 27
          Replying to @keith_ng

          If an army of the involuntarily unemployed threatened socialist revolution, it would be a mistake to pretend there was no problem just because their solution is evil.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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