Isn’t this just evidence that verbal enthusiastic consent should be the cultural standard? Beats vomiting I think.
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How so? Establishing a cultural standard that most people evidently find cumbersome and unnatural seems like a recipe for failure
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I think the takeaway here is that most people find ways to communicate desire (or lack thereof) when they wish to; in all these cases, even the vomit one, the desired outcome was in fact achieved
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Is all cultural change a lost cause?
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Of course not! It's a much harder sell, though, if nobody likes or wants to use the new standard being proposed
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I only lost my virginity because this girl would come over to my place and ask to have sex and cry when I said no... finally after the 4th or 5th time I was like FINE let's go. I have conflicted feelings about it, but at the same time, *it literally was easier than saying no*
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Ugh, that sounds unpleasant, I'm sorry. I've heard enough of these stories that they no longer surprise me, exactly, but



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I think that story isn't especially uncommon... and that ultimately it's not very bad? It makes me bristle at this standard that some folks seem to have in which we're owed a life free of bad luck or conflict. Like, that was a pretty low stakes way to learn a lesson and i'm /
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I'm glad I learned it at 18 instead of later on when the stakes may have been higher.
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That's a healthy outlook! I tend to agree, and think it would probably be good if more people stopped viewing social pressure or conflict surrounding sex as inherently different and more damaging than other scenarios; humans are more resilient than we give ourselves credit for
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Please don't so direct my attention... I'd prefer it directed to that cute dog of yours.
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Men saying no to sexually agressive women is more difficult than I think many women think it is. There's an assumption from (some) women that all men always want to have sex and they'll have sex with almost anyone Trying to turn them down frequently goes south v quickly
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1. Note how
@DrZhana still sticks to the "enthusiastic" part; have a pleonasm, and you can eat the affirmative. 2. Does making oneself throw up really mean no, though. -
Don’t understand what you’re criticizing here?
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#2 wasn't serious. Re #1, when you leave the requirement of "enthusiasm" in place you get pretty much the same results as with "affirmation." Not only will you ban most of responsive desire, but also playing hard to get, using sex to negotiate, to defuse, to process emotions etc.
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Further, verifying "enthusiasm" will effectively amount to verbal consent, particularly in Title IX settings, more so under preponderance. All this is exacerbated by ambivalence, the presumption of power imbalances and false consciousness/preferences.
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(Theorists fail to account for true inner conflict as well. Rather, they assume conflict is the result of external influence, eg patriarchy. This assumption of natural personal and intertemporal unity makes little sense.) Then consider ambiguity.http://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/the-delicate-dilemma-of-defining-rape/ …
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And yet as you know they're being institutionalized in formal college protocols. And look, even, at Google's new rule that if you ask a woman out and she says she's busy, you may not ask again. Otherwise harassment.
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