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karnage_don's profile
Colin Murphy
Colin Murphy
Colin Murphy
@karnage_don

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Colin Murphy

@karnage_don

Attorney

Brooklyn, NY
Joined March 2017

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    1. Colin Murphy‏ @karnage_don Oct 25
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      The ban is silly, not because of the religious aspect, but because it's not that big of a deal, and the government shouldn't be making these decisions for parents.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 25
      Replying to @karnage_don

      This stance assumes that it is better for parents to make these decisions for children than for governments to protect children's rights to make these decisions for themselves when they are old enough to do so. That parents have more rights over the child's body than the child.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Colin Murphy‏ @karnage_don Oct 25
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Exactly. And that is the correct position in my opinion. Parents choose many things for their kids that will shape the rest of their lives, and that's the way it should be.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 25
      Replying to @karnage_don

      We do need to justify these tho. Is it OK to make children brush their teeth? Yes. Why? Because their teeth need to last to adulthood when they can decide whether to care for them or not. Is it OK to brand children with the logo of your political party to mark their entry into it

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Colin Murphy‏ @karnage_don Oct 25
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Is it ok to get your child's ears pierced? Should the government ban that? Essentially, we're talking about cutting off a piece of arguably useless skin from a child's body. I don't see that as something the government should be involved in.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 25
      Replying to @karnage_don

      No. I don't think the government should be involved in deciding whether someone has a bit of skin removed from their body either. We agree on that. What we disagree on is whether the individual gets to decide this or whether parents can do so.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Colin Murphy‏ @karnage_don Oct 25
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      Yes. I'm talking about all of this in the context of parents' rights. Should the government decide whether a parent can get their child's ears pierced? It mutilates the ear lobe for purely social reasons.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 25
      Replying to @karnage_don

      No, governments should not decide whether kids should be pierced or cut or tattood either. They should consistently uphold every individual's right to make this decision for themselves and prosecute those who do it to those who don't or cannot consent.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Colin Murphy‏ @karnage_don Oct 25
      Replying to @HPluckrose

      This contradicts itself. If the government is prosecuting parents for decisions they are making for their kids, then the government *is* making decisions for the parents.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Colin Murphy‏ @karnage_don Oct 25
      Replying to @karnage_don @HPluckrose

      I would agree that, to use a very crazy hypothetical, the government could prosecute a parent who tattoos a swastika across their child's face, as this would have such a negative effect on the life of the child, it would amount to child abuse. But, circumcision is not that.

      7:35 AM - 25 Oct 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 25
          Replying to @karnage_don

          I don't think it is matter of degree but a matter of principle. Does the individual have the right to decide whether their body remains intact or not, given that no medical decision needs to be made when a child too young to make one.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 25
          Replying to @HPluckrose @karnage_don

          If you agree that no adult has the right to cut bits of skin off another adult, you need to justify doing it to kids. We justify making children have tonsillectomies, brush teeth for health reasons & taking stuff away & grounding them for learning reasons.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 25
          Replying to @HPluckrose @karnage_don

          "Because I am the parent" is not a justification and we see this in most cases. Parents are prosecuted if they cut other bits off their kids even if it equally mild - eg an earlobe or if they tattoo or brand kids even if this can be reversed. Because the child has rights too.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 25
          Replying to @HPluckrose @karnage_don

          You are going at it from the wrong direction. There is no justification needed for keeping kids bodies intact & letting them back their own decision. There is a justification needed for not doing so & "I am the parent & it's not that harmful' doesn't cut it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Colin Murphy‏ @karnage_don Oct 25
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          But, it is a matter of degree, isn't it? Parents should be allowed to make decisions as to what they think is best for their children, without government interference, so long as it they aren't neglecting or abusing them.

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Helen Pluckrose‏ @HPluckrose Oct 25
          Replying to @karnage_don

          Yes. I think it's clear that cutting bits off their penises falls on the "no" side of that line for the reasons I've given. There is no justification for this while there is for making them brush their teeth, have needed surgery, do their homework etc. Going in circles now.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Colin Murphy‏ @karnage_don Oct 25
          Replying to @HPluckrose

          1. Sorry you think we're going in circles. It seems like an interesting debate to me.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Colin Murphy‏ @karnage_don Oct 25
          Replying to @karnage_don @HPluckrose

          2. No one is advocating cutting bits of the penis off, but trimming useless skin from one part of it, which is the difference between a harmless cosmetic procedure, and genital mutilation. But, it's the location of it that's the problem for you, isn't it?

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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