This is all similar to the convo we were having a/b young men getting seduced by the alt-right: I think there's def a way to treat frustrated/angry/lonely young men as human beings deserving of empathy w/o buying into crazy ideas that they "deserve" things other groups don't
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I don't want to wade into the argument of whether these guys are good or bad or deserve more or less empathy. But most of them have extremely severe social and emotional disabilities. Maybe society did it, but they're not an attitude adjustment away from being normal
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Right, and I do think that it's interesting that in most cases we'd reject arguments of the form "This group just needs to buck up -- we've gone too soft on them"
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hey jesse i think you want to be really careful about using language that sounds like you might be comparing historically disfavored groups to men who are angry that women can choose to have sex with.
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Eh further down in that very thread I make it clear who I'm comparing the incels to -- other subsets of the broader category of "frustrated young men"https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/991779290504159232?s=19 …
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But the problem is precisely that you don't treat historically disfavored grps w nearly the same amt of compassion you reserve for those who opt into the alt-right. That empathy you reserve for white men is itself a privilege you think they're entitled to that other groups aren't
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That's a pretty serious accusation to say I don't think systematically oppressed people deserve empathy. I don't understand where that's coming from or what your basis is for saying that.
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I said same amt, not any empathy at all. I think, for example, your tendency to issue behavioral prescriptions to POC, urging them to be so very kind to people who deny them humanity, is framed by you as empathy, when you are in fact being quite cold to the truly marginalized grp
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Maybe they don't feel it because their expectation is that they are entitled to so much of it because of what Jeet is saying.
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Eh, I'm sorta resistant to that explanation for the same reasons I'm resistant to the idea that "entitlement" causes mass shootings, which people were also bandying about -- it just feels like you can tack it on to any explanation for why anyone does anything
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But it isn't just anyone whining about being incels or perpetrating mass shootings. It's white men.
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That's...not really true.
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Most are white men, sure, but that's because they're almost all men and most men are white (in the US)
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Even controlling for demographics, white men are over-represented among mass shooters.
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I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.
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I've dipped in too. I think they've fallen into the darkness through a sense of entitlement.
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"These guys do not feel like the object of much empathy." - This doesn't mean they don't get it! The media has been feeding the empathetic train of incel-adjacent men for decades. The fact that they can't realize this is because they fundamentally lack perspective.
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Better advice than: "yes, you're right, we'll find a way to force women to serve you" is.. maybe.. just maybe... "take better care of yourself, dress well, be more interesting, be more confident, and attract mates without dystopian gender authoritarianism"
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"Also stop being violently ideated creeps, that would go a long way."
End of conversation
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