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jckarter's profile
Joe Groff
Joe Groff
Joe Groff
@jckarter

Joe Groff

@jckarter

Swift emotional support doggo

Joined January 2009
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    1. Peter Steinberger ‏@steipete Jul 18

      @jckarter @mjtsai In our SDK we re-built final with runtime checks in initialize and just assert to protect people from doing unwise things.

      0 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    2. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @steipete @mjtsai That's quite a bit of work to do for every API, and requires a lot of runtime knowledge to do well correctly.

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Friedrich Markgraf ‏@fzwob Jul 18

      @jckarter @steipete @mjtsai main problem with sealed-by-default: makes using stuff for unanticipated use case hard, thus stunts innovation.

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @fzwob @steipete @mjtsai Having to support bugs forever for compatibility also stifles innovation. There's tradeoffs.

      0 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    5. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

      @jckarter I don’t understand why you have to support bugs (rather than the promised contract) forever. Why not warn like with deprecation?

      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @mjtsai If subclassing is part of that contract, you have a lot more compatibility surface area to ensure subclassers don't break.

      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

      @jckarter I mean in general—undocumented/unpromised subclassing details and non-subclassing-related bugs.

      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @mjtsai That's more important than technically-correct framework bug fixes or refactorings in a lot of cases.

      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Patrick Smith ‏@concreteniche Jul 18

      @jckarter @mjtsai Could you almost say that some framework bugs were left unfixed because of easy work arounds being possible?

      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Patrick Smith ‏@concreteniche Jul 18

      @jckarter @mjtsai Hopefully this will make it much easier for Apple to fix those framework bugs that are the actual source of pain

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @concreteniche @mjtsai I think it'll lead to a more robust third-party framework ecosystem, whatever Apple ends up doing.

      • Like 1
      • Patrick Smith
      5:52 PM - 18 Jul 2016
      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

          @jckarter If this is about 3rd party frameworks, the vendor can always put a breaking change in a new version. If necessary to reverse a

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        2. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

          @jckarter bad decision. Whereas the framework client, without the ability to override, has no recourse.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Patrick Smith ‏@concreteniche Jul 18

          @mjtsai @jckarter Hopefully though those frameworks are using value types, where they don’t get the ability to subclass/override anyway

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. View other replies
        5. Patrick Smith ‏@concreteniche Jul 18

          @mjtsai @jckarter If framework authors used classes because clients are more comfortable and able to monkey patch, I think that’d be sad

          0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
        6. Patrick Smith ‏@concreteniche Jul 18

          @mjtsai @jckarter AFAIK protocols would allow the most of same sorts of custom extending desired, and are explicitly designed to be so

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

          @concreteniche @jckarter Probably not as flexible. And changing classes to protocols doesn’t make the design/thinking issues go away.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. View other replies
        9. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

          @mjtsai @concreteniche You can easily wrap a conforming type and patch or completely replace its conformance if you need to.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        10. View other replies
        11. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

          @jckarter @concreteniche Yes, but patching from the outside is limited because you can’t override anything that’s not in the protocol.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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