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jckarter's profile
Joe Groff
Joe Groff
Joe Groff
@jckarter

Joe Groff

@jckarter

Swift emotional support doggo

Joined January 2009
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    1. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      Obj-C certainly has some missing features. But the trend of language "correctness" over getting shit done in Swift worries me.

      0 replies 3 retweets 9 likes
    2. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      That's the rabbit hole C++ went down, and sure, C++ is popular, but no one enjoys C++.

      0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      Basically Swift excited me most as C++ without the C++, and it's just starting to become plain C++.

      0 replies 5 retweets 7 likes
    4. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @colincornaby Swift aims to let API vendors be very precise about what they expose, and abstract everything else.

      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      @jckarter Sure, I just prefer that restriction to be explicit over implicit. I think a lot of classes will be unnecessarily final.

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

      @jckarter I do a heck of a lot of subclassing things that aren't even meant to be subclassed for mocking tests around my own code.

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @colincornaby OTOH, components that interface with protocols have *more* flexibility for mocking and hotfixing than subclassing.

      0 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
    8. Dr. Sneed ‏@bsneed Jul 18

      @jckarter @colincornaby , and this proposal isn't really forcing them to do that, it feels more like just creating pain on end-users.

      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      @bsneed @colincornaby It doesn't affect end users at all. The frameworks aren't going to spontaneously rewrite themselves in Swift.

      0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

      @jckarter @bsneed @colincornaby If it truly “doesn’t affect end users at all,” what could be the point of the change?

      0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

      Joe Groff Retweeted Joe Groff

      @mjtsai @bsneed @colincornabyhttps://twitter.com/jckarter/status/755149856994316288 …

      Joe Groff added,

      Joe Groff @jckarter
      @bsneed @colincornaby The default is all about making sure API authors don't make irrevocable mistakes without thinking about them.
      2:31 PM - 18 Jul 2016
      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Michael Tsai ‏@mjtsai Jul 18

          @jckarter Right, but presumably you expect that to ultimately benefit end users (indirectly).

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        2. View other replies
        3. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

          @mjtsai They don't have Apple's resources to deal with all the backward-compat testing to cope with unconstrained subclassing and patching.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

          @jckarter @mjtsai Ehhhhh. It's never been a huge problem for me, I mean, we have test rigs for this sort of thing, but we work it out.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

          @jckarter @mjtsai For a lot of stuff like view controllers it's a built in assumption. But I was ok with just marking final.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

          @jckarter @mjtsai (We also have a lot of tests around it, but again, we'd mark final where we didn't want subclassing.)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Colin Cornaby ‏@colincornaby Jul 18

          @jckarter @mjtsai I'd rather default to our team having a discussion on why something shouldn't be subclassable rather than why it should.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jul 18

          @colincornaby @mjtsai There's an analogous conversation to have w/ value type APIs too—"do I need a concrete type and not a protocol"

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      2. Dr. Sneed ‏@bsneed Jul 18

        @jckarter @mjtsai @colincornaby happy to see how it plays out in practice. admittedly, i'm anticipating things that may not happen.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

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