Joe Groff on Twitter: "@mpweiher @helje5 @staypufd @timburks A little up-front complexity for initializers greatly simplifies the state space for everything else."

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Sam Griffith ‏@staypufd Jan 29

@jckarter @timburks Good. Swift for all its newness is going down a path much like C++ did as far as complexity. That is worrisome.
3 likes
Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jan 29

@staypufd @timburks Unlike C++ we're willing to shed complexity if things end up not working well or can be replaced by simpler rules.
1 retweet 2 likes
Marcel Weiher ‏@mpweiher Jan 29

@jckarter @staypufd @timburks That’s a great! Question: how far are you willing to backtrack? After all, diagnostics add complexity. Also, …
Marcel Weiher ‏@mpweiher Jan 29

Marcel Weiher Retweeted Orta Therox

@jckarter @staypufd @timburks see https://twitter.com/orta/status/693091042497806337 … on initialisers, compare with Chris’s response to http://blog.metaobject.com/2014/06/remove-features-for-greater-power-aka.html …

Marcel Weiher added,

Orta Therox @orta

Swift’s init rules are confusing. I’ve never once got anything non-trivial right first time Seeing a lot of Shia https://twitter.com/orta/status/669988319766384640 …
1 like
Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jan 29

@mpweiher @staypufd @timburks Swift inherited its complex initializer rules from Cocoa's informal evolved rules.
1 retweet 6 likes
Marcel Weiher ‏@mpweiher Jan 29

@jckarter @staypufd @timburks As the post states: ObjC has *one* rule, which is that “initialisers” are normal message sends.
2 likes
Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jan 29

@mpweiher @staypufd @timburks At the language level, yes. The simple language model leads to complex, unenforced framework-level rules.
Helge Heß ‏@helje5 Jan 29

@jckarter @mpweiher @staypufd @timburks Unenforced? Yes. Complex? I don't see that. Behaves exactly like any other method. 0 surprise.
3 likes
Joe Groff ‏@jckarter Jan 29

@helje5 @mpweiher @staypufd @timburks Until init invokes a method that a subclass overrode thinking it would only be called after init…
Marcel Weiher ‏@mpweiher Jan 29

@jckarter @helje5 @staypufd @timburks Which, as is the case for any other method, may be (a) desirable or (b) undesirable.
2 likes

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