Joe Groff

@jckarter @timburks Good. Swift for all its newness is going down a path much like C++ did as far as complexity. That is worrisome.

@staypufd @timburks Unlike C++ we're willing to shed complexity if things end up not working well or can be replaced by simpler rules.

@jckarter @staypufd @timburks That’s a great! Question: how far are you willing to backtrack? After all, diagnostics add complexity. Also, …

@jckarter @staypufd @timburks see https://twitter.com/orta/status/693091042497806337 … on initialisers, compare with Chris’s response to http://blog.metaobject.com/2014/06/remove-features-for-greater-power-aka.html …

@mpweiher @staypufd @timburks Swift inherited its complex initializer rules from Cocoa's informal evolved rules.

@jckarter @staypufd @timburks As the post states: ObjC has *one* rule, which is that “initialisers” are normal message sends.

@mpweiher @staypufd @timburks At the language level, yes. The simple language model leads to complex, unenforced framework-level rules.