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j00ru//vx
j00ru//vx
j00ru//vx
@j00ru

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j00ru//vx

@j00ru

Windows hacker & vulnerability researcher. Google Project Zero. @DragonSectorCTF

Poland
j00ru.vexillium.org
Joined April 2010

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    j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 2 May 2013

    Windows Race Condition research is out! See "SyScan 2013, Bochspwn paper and slides" at http://j00ru.vexillium.org/?p=1695  and http://gynvael.coldwind.pl/?id=503 

    11:56 AM - 2 May 2013
    • 107 Retweets
    • 54 Likes
    • Valerio Costamagna Emmanuel.Law Minh-Triet Pham Tran theweeZ Plank Time Peter Winter-Smith Stefano Di Paola Stephen A. Ridley patchguard
    14 replies 107 retweets 54 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 4 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @j00ru @gynvael Do you intend to try this on other OS kernels? Looks perfectly reusable. Considered XCHG besides XOR and ADD?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 5 May 2013
        Replying to @solardiz

        @solardiz @gynvael We do intend to try this for Linux, BSD and whatnot. This is already WIP and we should have some results within 1-2 weeks

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 5 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @solardiz @gynvael If we actually find anything in the open-source kernels, I expect the turn-around time to be way better than for Windows.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 5 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @solardiz @gynvael so you're probably going to find out about the outcome rather soon.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 4 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @j00ru @gynvael Two MOVs let you use any two values and are probably faster than any of XOR/ADD/XCHG (with MOV, there's no read from target)

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 5 May 2013
        Replying to @solardiz

        @solardiz @gynvael as I said earlier, XOR also has any two values. However, testing MOV is still a good idea due to "no read" argument.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 5 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @solardiz @gynvael we'll do some testing and get back to you regarding all of the points soon. your comments are very much appreciated :)

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 4 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @j00ru @gynvael However, the lock may also slow down the kernel code you're racing against. Or it may not. This is something to test.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 5 May 2013
        Replying to @solardiz

        @solardiz @gynvael We haven't tried XCHG - this is a great idea for something to test. Just one note, XOR can also have any 2 values.

        3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 5 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @solardiz @gynvael We will likely release another update paper including research on post-conf. suggestions. Thanks for the 'xchg' pointer.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 4 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @j00ru @gynvael In other words, your tricks have probably achieved an even greater relative slowdown than you claim :-)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 5 May 2013
        Replying to @solardiz

        @solardiz @gynvael I double-checked, and... you're right! we had a bug in the L1 perf. tests :( real timings vary between <0.1, 0.7> cycles.

        5 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 5 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @solardiz @gynvael thanks a bunch for spotting this! no other timing measurements were affected. we're going to release an update today.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Scott Noone‏ @analyzev 2 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @j00ru Of course, fixing them correctly is another issue. We had a great guest article about the difficulties in it: http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?article=514 …

        1 reply 8 retweets 5 likes
      3. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 2 May 2013
        Replying to @analyzev

        @analyzev this is awesome, thanks for the pointer! [I haven't seen the article before]. I hope driver writers took your warnings seriously.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Yuriy Bulygin‏ @c7zero 2 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @j00ru excellent! I'm sure not limited to Windows kernel ;)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. j00ru//vx‏ @j00ru 2 May 2013
        Replying to @c7zero

        @c7zero thanks. I guess this is going to be determined real soon :)

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 4 May 2013
        Replying to @j00ru

        @j00ru @gynvael XCHG is curious in two ways: more flexibility than XOR (can have any two values) and it implies LOCK prefix for free

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Andrew Case‏ @attrc 4 May 2013
        Replying to @solardiz

        @solardiz implies?

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 4 May 2013
        Replying to @attrc

        @attrc I recall this from the 386 days, now just Googled to confirm before tweeting to @j00ru @gynvael. Also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3144335/on-a-multicore-x86-is-a-lock-necessary-as-a-prefix-to-xchg …

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      5. End of conversation

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