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ithayla's profile
Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫 🇲🇾
Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫 🇲🇾
Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾
@ithayla

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Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾

@ithayla

Was in #crazyrichasians | Fiction/games @FFGames,@DingandDent, @BoardGamePrices,@BoardGameAtlas, @PCGamer,@therewillbegame| he/his | http://ko-fi.com/ithayla 

dinganddentcast.com
Joined August 2009

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    Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

    Ok board games, two opposite conversations are happening right now 1) If you want someone to do media for your game, you should pay them (broadly true) 2) If you can't afford to pay them, you shouldn't get them to do it (broadly false)

    10:42 AM - 1 Apr 2021
    • 38 Retweets
    • 242 Likes
    • Kyle Frost // GIVEPAUSE Chris C Xander (he/him) C thegamehutch Randy Flynn &Mirth Skip Neiλ de Carteret
    11 replies 38 retweets 242 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        The core issue here imo is the mix up of professional vs hobbyist media creators and the blurred lines in between the two. (to add confusion, I'm a professional board games industry-side writer, but I've never taken money to do a review. I've been offered but I turn it down)

        1 reply 2 retweets 78 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        One big part of the appeal of board games as an INDUSTRY is that nearly anyone can jump in and create, without the kinds of barriers that video games have. The same appeal exists on the MEDIA side of things where a phone camera or a twitch stream lets people share their passions

        1 reply 1 retweet 63 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        We've now gotten to the point where some MEDIA outlets are pros, who have rates, get hired by big publishers to do teaching videos, show off their shiny new kickstarters. (we'll leave aside the conversation of being paid to do 'reviews' of games, completely separate talk.)

        1 reply 1 retweet 53 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        but not all MEDIA people are pros yet. And not all INDUSTRY people are pros either. Vast majority of indie publishers/designers are 1/2 person 'studios' just trying to make some cool stuff. And having the same expectations on a tiny indie as a big publishing house is unrealistic

        1 reply 2 retweets 71 likes
        Show this thread
      6. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        Mostly, a one/two person kickstarter project CANNOT AFFORD media rates, esp because these have to be paid BEFORE the campaign makes any $ and the sunk cost is not something anyone can just shell out.

        1 reply 2 retweets 66 likes
        Show this thread
      7. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        (adjacent conversation board games has been having: 'why do all KS projects have to be so slick? what happened to anyone with a dream can make it?') hmm.jpg

        2 replies 4 retweets 86 likes
        Show this thread
      8. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        So what's an indie INDUSTRY company to do? contact other little indie MEDIA people and try to get them to help out. If not with a video, then maybe a testimonial off a tabletop simulator session. Some word of mouth marketing. Mention us to your fans!

        2 replies 3 retweets 62 likes
        Show this thread
      9. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        What do they get in return? A copy of the game, some exposure, links to their socials/channel. Is this a fair trade? Only the parties involved can say it is. I think the 'NEVER WORK FOR FREE' mindset has honestly edged out the 'if the other party is making $ off you' part.

        2 replies 5 retweets 87 likes
        Show this thread
      10. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        'Profit' on an indie kickstarter is laughable. If $ was the motive you'd be better off doing almost literally anything else. I am not saying that passion projects can exploit other passionate people for free work. All I am saying is 'everyone starts somewhere.'

        1 reply 1 retweet 79 likes
        Show this thread
      11. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        Again, parallel/opposite-facing conversations. 'Everyone needs to eat' vs 'capitalism has forced us to monetize everything' vs 'don't exploit people' vs 'sometimes the only thing we can offer is X' If you lock off media to only big publishers, guess what happens to indies?

        1 reply 3 retweets 72 likes
        Show this thread
      12. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        I am not saying media people who take $ need to start working for free. But you can be flexible in your quoting, for example. And smaller media people just starting out may need the opportunities, and working for free or a reduced rate can be what they need to get started.

        1 reply 1 retweet 57 likes
        Show this thread
      13. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        Like, I'm telling you flat out. Several kickstarters I have worked on had 0 budget for media. 0. Everything was word of mouth through friends and networking. They cannot magic the money out of thin air.

        1 reply 1 retweet 58 likes
        Show this thread
      14. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        Some media people don't want to work for free. Some might. And matching those media who are ok with a copy of the game and some airtime on the KS page with the indie industry creators who need a boost helps everyone.

        1 reply 1 retweet 54 likes
        Show this thread
      15. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        ok long rambling thread over. TLDR: Please try not to flatten nuance in your thinking. I see this a lot in a lot of different conversations. The world is too complicated for 1:1 monodimensional thinking.

        1 reply 4 retweets 90 likes
        Show this thread
      16. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        to add one thing, just in case people aren't aware of the kinds of numbers we're talking about on the industry side of things Gloomhaven, massive kickstarter success story, biggest campaign ever. 40000 copies sold. raw profit per copy: $20. for thousands of hours of work.

        1 reply 1 retweet 63 likes
        Show this thread
      17. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        Your indie game that has 500 backers and a print run of 750 copies is never gonna crack a profit. It's not going to happen.

        2 replies 1 retweet 58 likes
        Show this thread
      18. Calvin Wong Tze Loon 黃子倫  🇲🇾‏ @ithayla Apr 1

        most 'big' board game publishers are happy to have 5000 unit sales on a game, or omg we can order a reprint if they have a big splash at a convention. A lot of games get sold as leftover inventory for years or pulped.

        1 reply 1 retweet 62 likes
        Show this thread
      19. End of conversation

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