Navigation überspringen

Chang'e 5: Ultimate Chinese challenge to get Moon rocks back to Earth

Live

Launching on 23 November 2020 (UTC), the capstone of China's lunar exploration program will bring back 2+ kg of lunar rocks, the largest batch of solar system body samples since the Apollo program and 3 successful Soviet lunar sample return missions.

Launching on 23 November 2020 (UTC), the capstone of China's lunar exploration program will bring back 2+ kg of lunar rocks, the largest batch of solar system body samples since the Apollo program and 3 successful Soviet lunar sample return missions.

  1. Sneak peek on something going to hit your spaceflight news headlines coming next week...

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  2. ...and it might have a milestone effect on human exploration of space, in many ways. Yet for most parts people involved absolutely don't like to talk about it (right now). More on this coming in the next days here.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  3. At T-1 week, w/ a decade of development & 3 additional years of wait for its ride to space behind, 23 intense days to the Moon and back ahead, this may be as much a watershed moment of beyond Earth human exploration as the Crew Dragon launch just now...

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  4. ...but they are so shy that there has been literally close to no news of what any other places would proudly boast as one of their flagship spaceflight missions, one that might be only slightly easier than Mars Sample Return. Yes, the ultimate Chinese call to the Moon is here.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  5. So, um, before going through details of this, I have to report on the bad news that per someone's insider contacts (see below) we probably won't get much news of Chang'e 5, at least during launch phase. Yup, Chang'e 5 has an official identity crisis.😅

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  6. (the dialogue was about how Ouyuan Ziyuan, the default unofficial Chinese lunar exploration spokes-scientist, is NOT planned to appear in any live coverages of Chang'e 5...but will be on a December 5th launch from Xichang, probably of the GECAM gravitational wave observatories)

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  7. This doesn't retract from the fact that this mission has a lot that can go wrong, and yet being a fierce shot at the PRC's determination of beyond-Low-Earth-orbit robotic and human exploration at the same time. This rocket-rabbit logo (made by enthusiasts?) feels exactly that.🤔

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  8. Well they are rolling off a day earlier than reported! The Long March 5 rocket with Chang'e 5 is currently rolling out to its pad at Wenchang for launch on apparently November 23 evening UTC.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  9. Someone somehow got a video of the roll out this time:

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  10. As usual, lots of flags and banners around here.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  11. Meanwhile in China this is almost at the pad...

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  12. More flags and banners, with the spacecraft and rocket processing teams:

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  13. Conflicting insider sources with another reliable one saying there will be some coverage on launch day:

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  14. Dieser Tweet ist nicht verfügbar.
    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  15. (rant) Well I was trying to write up a step-by-step walk through of Chang'e 5 from launch to Earth touchdown. Turns out not only I don't have parameters of its science instruments, there's only ONE list of it in a 2017 paper in Chinese! If anyone have them, please let me know.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  16. (rant) There are also many holes in my understanding of the lunar sample transfer process. If someone have good diagrams (especially the sample storage of the ascent stage, plus how samples move from ascent stage to the Earth return capsule), please let me know too.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  17. OK so, since several days of additional waiting from me failed to turn up more recent info, here's my walk through of the mission that, unlike other sample return missions, will be all over in 23 Earth days. And it's HARD. Lots of things can go wrong in a blink.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  18. Firstly, the ride to the Moon. While scoring successes w/ last Dec.'s RTF, the next-gen crew S/C (w/o 2nd stage) in May and sent TW-1 to Mars in July, the Long March 5 is still an inexperienced rocket. With every of its launches flagships, the pressure must be intense every time.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  19. Look at the engines. The YF-77 "Chinese Vulcain" on the core stage scored 3 good flights since the July 2017 failure and lots of teething troubles in testing. The YF-75D on the upper stage (expander cycle & not the CZ-3B's gas generator YF-75) had just *2* good flights!

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  20. (on the 1st launch in Nov. 2016 the YF-75D under-performed & required the YZ-2 U/S to correct it). The RP-1 YF-100 has had 5 more launches under LM-6/7, but still it's pretty young. Then there's GNC and other issues etc. The ~30 minutes through S/C sep. will be a long wait.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  21. After separation the whole spacecraft will be on a direct trajectory towards the Moon. made some calculations based on prior mission timelines and estimate the LOI will be around 4.5 days after launch, probably ~14:45 UTC on Nov. 28:

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  22. What goes afterward is a bit hazy as I have never saw any detailed description of the mission timeline after this, but the spacecraft should stay in an unknown lunar orbit awaiting the sun to rise at the landing site, then separates from the orbiter and land.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  23. We still have no idea when it will land - I have seen Nov. 30 mentioned once but early Dec. is possible - but while the Chinese have 2 successful ones already, the 2 failed Moon landings still remind people that GNC is a harsh mistress.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  24. With the lander probably a bit different from the ones used on Chang'e 3/4, even this part will still be a challenge to nail down. All these parts will apparently be observed by a descent camera like the last 2 landings, though the only official source is from a Chinese paper.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  25. Now the surface operations is rather spotty in terms of public info. It took me quite a long time to nail the scientific instrument suite that would help in the sampling: - Panoramic Camera (PCAM) - Lunar Mineralogical Spectrometer (LMS) - Lunar Regolith Penetrating Radar (LRPR)

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  26. The only mention of the PCAM is the paper excerpt below - I'm not even sure where they are located, perhaps it's the rotating platform in the picture on the descent stage. I can't find their technical parameters either... ()

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  27. The LMS is apparently a visual/near infrared spectrometer - according to this is similar to the VIS/NIR Imaging Spectrometer (VNIS) on the Chang'e 3 rover w/ some modifications. I can't find where it is (same as PCAM?) or its technical parameters.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  28. The LRPR works at 2 GHz frequency under the bottom of the descent stage and maps the regolith structure beneath it for ease of sampling/drilling analysis. Luckily we do have a detailed paper regarding its principles with photos:

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  29. As for the most important part, sample retrieval, the landing site near Mons Rumker in Oceanus Procellarum is of new geological importance not seen in previous lunar samples. has it summarized here:

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  30. And sorry for the interruption, but a certain insider has reported important timings of the mission! Launch time: 20:25 ~ 21:15 UTC on November 23 Landing time: Probably ~20:30 UTC on November 29 (base on MCC screen shots during final rehearsal) Source

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  31. Also it appears that after McGregor Texas, Wenchang is also a major habitat of Rocket Cows (TM):

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  32. It seems that I won't have time to finish this overview until half a day later so I'll just leave you with views of the pad from last night and right now:

    Dieser Tweet ist nicht verfügbar.
    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  33. Dieser Tweet ist nicht verfügbar.
    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  34. Someone found this paper on the Lunar Mineralogical Spectrometer (LMS) and it's great! It's fixed to one side of the descent stage and points towards the soil sampling area.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  35. Not much news yet, but the lenses are ready for tonight:

    Dieser Tweet ist nicht verfügbar.
    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  36. Dieser Tweet ist nicht verfügbar.
    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  37. So back to the mission, Chang'e 5 will combine scooping and drilling to obtain lunar (sub)surface samples, aiming for least 2 kg & w/ capacity for 4. Three-quarters by mass will be via scooping on the surface, with 1/4 from the drill that will reach 2.5 meters deep.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  38. Like the Soviet LSR missions of the 1970s, the deep drilling will provide layered sub-surface samples of the lunar crust. Detailed description of drilling bit and sample sealing can be found at . I'm not sure how samples would be put into the ascent stage.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  39. The other method of sampling will be via a double scoop on the end of the robotic arm, assisted by twin cameras. IIRC some parts of it were designed by a team at Hong Kong Polytechnic University a few km from me, which has worked on Beagle 2 & Chang'e 3.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  40. Getting the sampling working as planned may be more difficult than it seems (ask 's thermal probe or Apollo astronauts etc.), but here comes the hairy part of taking off from the Moon, 1st major launch from a major solar system object since Luna 24 of 1976:

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  41. So after ~2 days of surface operations the ascent stage will have only 1 chance to get to the right rendezvous orbit (15 x 200 km towards the orbiter at 200 km circular per a 2014 paper). Then it has to dock w/ it - never tried robotically that far from Earth.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  42. Those who have read the details of the / Mars Sample Return mission plans would probably have a headache on this. Now the Chinese are attempting s/t only slightly easier all by themselves.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  43. It appears the docking mechanism is some sort of "soft docking" one with claws on the orbiter/return capsule side. The sample container would slide (?) into the return capsule and then automatically sealed. Quite tricky to get that right it seems...

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  44. The orbiter would wait for ~10 days before making the TEI burn (can't remember why). Another 5 days would pass before they come across Earth around December 16-ish. The return capsule would separate from the orbiter at ~5000 km altitude.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  45. Then came the hottest part of skip re-entry - so hairy that the Chinese rehearsed w/ the Chang'e 5-T1 mission way back in Oct./Nov. 2014. After bouncing back to 140+ km high the capsule would make a 2nd dip into the atmosphere before landing.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  46. IF everything went as planned (a very big IF I shall say) the lunar rocks would land at the existing Shenzhou landing site in Inner Mongolia in mid December (per 1 source, Dec. 16 ~17:00 UTC). Quite a signal to the rest of the world about NASA's Artemis Program eh?

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  47. As for the Moon rocks...well (naturally) the Chinese said that their own institutions will have priority in getting them (and it appears demand is overwhelming), but they did promise to share portions of them internationally.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  48. Well, that's it for my (way later than planned) walk through. Since the Chinese are full of stresses of risk we don't know what kind of coverage we'll get through to landing on the Moon and back. Sit back and wait is all we can do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen
  49. Ah, I can end this thread with the REAL launch window and target T-0! **T-0 is set for 20:30:12 UTC.** Launch window extends to 21:15:07 UTC.

    Diesen Thread anzeigen
    Rückgängig machen