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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    1. Tuur Demeester‏ @TuurDemeester Apr 4

      “Proof-of-Stake, Private Keys Attacks and Unforgeable Costliness the Unsung Hero” — @hugohanoi https://medium.com/@hugonguyen/proof-of-stake-private-keys-attacks-and-unforgeable-costliness-the-unsung-hero-5caca70b01cb#---0-560 …pic.twitter.com/yHn0WbtVOC

      “Casper introduces the problematic concept of ‘inactivity leak’, where nodes get penalized for the mere crime of going offline. Whether you’re intentionally going offline to cause harm or not, it doesn’t matter. This is a super perverse rule because a) it introduces a new vulnerability where an attacker can DDOS…” from “Proof-of-Stake, Private Keys Attacks and Unforgeable Costliness the Unsung Hero” by Hugo Nguyen.
      16 replies 54 retweets 188 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Vitalik Non-giver of Ether‏Verified account @VitalikButerin Apr 4
      Replying to @TuurDemeester @hugohanoi

      PoW also has an inactivity leak. What else is mining hardware depreciation?

      17 replies 20 retweets 147 likes
    3. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
      Replying to @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester @hugohanoi

      I don't get this. "Not investing enough in fresh hardware* seems quite different from "going offline". How does one DDOS the former?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
      Replying to @JaEsf @VitalikButerin and

      That said, I don't see Hugo's point either. DDOSing large staker = large miner: equally harmful, equally hard. It's just virtual mining...

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Apr 5
      Replying to @JaEsf @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester

      Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

      That's incorrect.https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/981800813369544705 …

      Hugo Nguyen added,

      Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
      Replying to @hugohanoi @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester
      Furthermore, even when it’s profitable to mine, a miner who takes his node offline only foregoes the potential reward. Under your rule, a PoS validator who takes his node offline will forge the reward AND lose his stake. Huge difference.
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
      Replying to @hugohanoi @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester

      That's not my understanding of it at all. It's a leak, not a slash. Go offline briefly & you get a small penalty proportional to the time.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
      Replying to @JaEsf @hugohanoi and

      Getting slashed (losing ~your entire stake) is *only* for equivocation, aka signing conflicting blocks. Separate topic.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
      Replying to @JaEsf @hugohanoi and

      Sure, if you keep a validator *permanently* offline (again, impractical), they lose full stake. Exactly like a miner whose hw can't mine.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Apr 5
      Replying to @JaEsf @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester

      Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

      That's incorrect too. Pls don't confuse connectivity with depreciationhttps://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/981800083623571457 …

      Hugo Nguyen added,

      Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
      Replying to @hugohanoi @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester
      *Actual* depreciation of an asset is about their decrease in economic value over time. This can happen due to normal wear & tear, it has *absolutely nothing* to do with the fact that they’re offline or online.
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
      Replying to @hugohanoi @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester

      Which part of what I said is incorrect? "Virtual mining" is, your stake = $ spent on hw. So yeah, if you can't mine, you lost your stake.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Apr 5
      Replying to @JaEsf @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester

      Validators lose money 100% of the time they disconnect. And can lose up to 100% of their stake given enough time (Vitalik suggested increase of leak rate under certain scenarios). PoW miners don't lose money 100% of the time they disconnect. In fact, they can save money.

      1:28 AM - 5 Apr 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Apr 5
          Replying to @hugohanoi @JaEsf and

          So no, they're not the same at all.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
          Replying to @hugohanoi @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester

          This is becoming unproductive, but if you spend $1m on hw & can't mine w/ it, that costs you $$. No actual miner would dispute this...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
          Replying to @JaEsf @hugohanoi and

          Whether that hourly "cost of disconnection" is > or < than Casper's just comes down to the penalty #s. It's not a principled distinction.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
          Replying to @JaEsf @hugohanoi and

          And for the third time, this whole DDOS attack is completely infeasible, at most an annoyance. No one should design around it, PoS or PoW.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Apr 5
          Replying to @JaEsf @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester

          Agreed on this being unproductive 🙂 for the last time, PoW miners have the option of going offline to save cost when price drops. PoS validators don’t.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Apr 5
          Replying to @hugohanoi @JaEsf and

          and the fact that you think this kind of thing is infeasible... well I don’t know what to say to that...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
          Replying to @hugohanoi @VitalikButerin @TuurDemeester

          What's infeasible is to keep a staker offline long enough to come anywhere near costing his full stake. Cost to attacker >> cost to staker.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Jacob Eliosoff‏ @JaEsf Apr 5
          Replying to @JaEsf @hugohanoi and

          Again, applies for PoW too. DDOSing miners is doable (more doable, since speed matters much more under PoW). But not a major system risk.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 2 more replies

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