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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    1. Tuur Demeester‏ @TuurDemeester Jan 13

      Tuur Demeester Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

      PoS vs PoW tweetstorm that digs into the fundamentals. Great overview of the argument:https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/951762596255838209 …

      Tuur Demeester added,

      Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
      1/ Here’s why I think Ethereum & Proof-of-Stake are bad ideas.
      Show this thread
      64 replies 211 retweets 661 likes
      Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jan 13
      Replying to @TuurDemeester

      Thanks Tuur. To add since so many people seem to be missing the point... “What about tech innovations? Cars vs horses? LED vs. lightbulb? Aren’t those examples of using less energy to achieve the same goal?” No because in those cases there are exploitable inefficiencies.

      11:02 AM - 13 Jan 2018
      • 4 Retweets
      • 24 Likes
      • fjccoin Nihontastic Martiño⚡ Patient Grasshopper ⚡️ howard 無さん Ipswich Real Estate Scott Ross Raw Jade
      4 replies 4 retweets 24 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Yo Crypto‏ @Yo_Crypto Jan 14
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          Everybody is missing your point because you failed to make it. You misused physics to make people believe you understand economics, while trying to explain the difference between 2 techs. Try sticking to the tech, and state real differences, not abstractions you don't fathom.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Tuur Demeester‏ @TuurDemeester Jan 14
          Replying to @Yo_Crypto @hugohanoi

          How did Hugo misuse physics?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yo Crypto‏ @Yo_Crypto Jan 14
          Replying to @TuurDemeester @hugohanoi

          Trying to apply COE to money (or anything with subjective value - to which there are no limits). It's not a closed system, and that is required. It starts out as an inequality, and just gets worse from there. A consequence of his argument would be static prices.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jan 14
          Replying to @Yo_Crypto @TuurDemeester

          Money is subjective, but immutability in PoW is *not* subjective due to the properties of one-way hash function. All I'm saying is there is a direct, 1-to-1 relationship between mining energy usage and immutability. Remove the energy, and you remove the immutability.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. rcrsv‏ @rcrsv Jan 14
          Replying to @hugohanoi @Yo_Crypto @TuurDemeester

          First law of thermodynamics doesn't apply to algorithms. Ex: Quicksort uses recursion to sort a billion integers with 50,000 times fewer operations than bubble sort. A better algorithm can get you something for nothing! No cosmic constant controls energy needed to secure 1 BTC

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jan 15
          Replying to @rcrsv @Yo_Crypto @TuurDemeester

          Ehh no. It still does. The fact that a new algo / new hardware allows you to perform a task more efficiently, simply means that the old algo / hardware wasted more electricity / kinetic energy than necessary. But you still use energy. It's not "nothing".

          0 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
        8. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jan 13
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          Every hash in PoW goes to secure the ledger. 1 hash mined == 1 hash harder to revert. You can improve the hardware that performs the hashing op itself, but there’s no getting around the fact that to rewrite history you have to spend an equiv amount of hash ops. 100% efficiency.

          4 replies 2 retweets 17 likes
        3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jan 13
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          Whereas one joule of horse energy != one joule of kinetic energy. One joule lightbulb used != one joule of photons released. Huge inefficiencies.

          1 reply 1 retweet 8 likes
        4. David‏ @david_koops Jan 13
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          Ehh yes but most of these joules are turned into heat in mining farms. How is this efficient?

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jan 13
          Replying to @david_koops @TuurDemeester

          Like I said, the mining hardware can be inefficient, and there’s room for improvement there (faster, generate less heat etc.). But the hashing operations themselves are 100% efficient for the purpose of protecting the ledger from being rewritten. One hash in, one hash out.

          1 reply 0 retweets 27 likes
        6. David‏ @david_koops Jan 13
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          No: energy goes in, hashes are produced, security is the result. However, security can be achieved without those hashes, for example by PoS.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        7. Rami Kridly‏ @RamiKridly Jan 13
          Replying to @david_koops @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          Its like u want not to understand

          1 reply 0 retweets 22 likes
        8. David‏ @david_koops Jan 13
          Replying to @RamiKridly @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          Well, enlighten me.. . Proof of stake protects the ledger from being rewritten with a fraction of the energy cost. That is what I call efficient.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        9. Rami Kridly‏ @RamiKridly Jan 13
          Replying to @david_koops @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          It doesn't protect it as PoW, not as safe, period.

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        10. 3 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Wyatt Patry‏ @Wyaquarist Jan 13
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          A car uses less energy than a horse? Hmm.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Corpsenardo Darkterol  🎃‏ @pankas87 Jan 13
          Replying to @Wyaquarist @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          Nope, the energy used/kinetic energy generated ratio is different between a horse and a ar. A car generates a lot more kinetic energy (Movement) with a smaller energy input

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 6hundred‏ @6hundred6 Jan 13
          Replying to @pankas87 @Wyaquarist and

          Because that concentrated energy output of gasoline might have came from 10 dead horses which decomposed millions of years ago.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. Corpsenardo Darkterol  🎃‏ @pankas87 Jan 13
          Replying to @6hundred6 @Wyaquarist and

          Nope, because the car uses the gasoline energy to produce kinetic energy in an efficient way. The thing with oil and gasoline is that they pack a lot of energy in a reduced space, but you can have inefficient machines running on fossil fuel too

          3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Alex  🍖‏ @maskoficarus Jan 13
          Replying to @pankas87 @6hundred6

          The two of you are trying to say the same thing. 😉

          0 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        7. End of conversation
        1. kngklla‏ @kngklla Jan 13
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TuurDemeester

          People offering up alternative perspectives doesn't necessarily mean they are missing your point. It just means they are sharing their thoughts with you. You should be proud to have incited such discussion.

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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