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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    1. Stephan Livera‏ @stephanlivera Oct 12

      "As PoS merely involves the temporary lockup of existing capital and does not consume said capital, it does not satisfy the unforgeable costliness requirement" - @hugohanoi Excellent post!https://medium.com/@hugonguyen/work-is-timeless-stake-is-not-554c4450ce18 …

      5 replies 41 retweets 97 likes
    2. Viktor Arvidsson  🕊‏ @anotherday____ Oct 12
      Replying to @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4 @hugohanoi

      Many holes. Conclusions do not follow wishful thinking. For example, I could steal the key to a miner, applying the same logic PoW breaks. The idea that reduction of cost in PoS is equal to reduction in safety is unsubstantited and so absurd it would be a miracle if it held true.pic.twitter.com/mol3L5nZJe

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Oct 12
      Replying to @anotherday____ @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4

      Nope, read again. Risks not comparable. Majority control in PoW: requires seizure of physical assets, after taking control still costly to rewrite history/double-spend. Majority control in PoS: requires hacking software nodes, after taking control, unlimited power at no cost.pic.twitter.com/T1j2TfkFWb

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Viktor Arvidsson  🕊‏ @anotherday____ Oct 12
      Replying to @hugohanoi @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4

      Yes. That falls under wishful thinking. It also runs counter to your own logic economically, especially considering the nature of already distributed technology. Seizure is also not a requirement for asset control. Point is there are ”off-chain” security issues on both ends.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Oct 12
      Replying to @anotherday____ @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4

      Miners who delegate block construction to centralized pools do reduce network security. However shady behaviors in pools are easily detected & miners have a fallback: switch pools or disconnect their physical hardware. No fallback for PoS nodes whose keys have been hacked.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Oct 12
      Replying to @hugohanoi @anotherday____ and

      I see you conveniently ignore my point about the difference in cost *after* taking majority control :-)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Viktor Arvidsson  🕊‏ @anotherday____ Oct 12
      Replying to @hugohanoi @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4

      If we are to be rude I could just point out that geographically decentralized is a nonsense term—you mean distributed—and that dispersion is ineffective given the game of scale + energy use signals location. But no—I am not conveniently anything. I gave you time. Remove your ego.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Oct 12
      Replying to @anotherday____ @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4

      lol why do you bring up ego I’m addressing your _argument_😆- and no you still have not addressed my 2nd point. Not sure what you mean by ineffective. Hard for Chinese govt to seize hardware in China AND Iceland. That’s what I mean by geographically decentralized.

      7:02 PM - 12 Oct 2018
      • 1 Like
      • jeet🐊
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Viktor Arvidsson  🕊‏ @anotherday____ Oct 12
          Replying to @hugohanoi @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4

          -Because of your response. -Which 2nd point? -Not in the grand scheme —plus you are limiting the problem arbitrarily, it is not only a risk of seizure and it is not only state actors one must worry about.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Oct 12
          Replying to @anotherday____ @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4

          Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

          This point👇🏼https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1050924130487291904?s=21 …

          Hugo Nguyen added,

          Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
          Replying to @hugohanoi @anotherday____ and 2 others
          I see you conveniently ignore my point about the difference in cost *after* taking majority control :-)
          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Oct 12
          Replying to @hugohanoi @anotherday____ and

          > Not in the grand scheme Can you elaborate? You still have not given any reasons to back up your argument that hardware dispersion is ineffective against the state.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Viktor Arvidsson  🕊‏ @anotherday____ Oct 12
          Replying to @hugohanoi @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4

          Can illustrate. Saudi Arabia just killed a journalist at their embassy. What was US response? Again the scope is false but question is then in which scenarios would state seize hardware (under what pretext). Some would lead countries to cooperate others would not. Lex Pirate Bay.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Viktor Arvidsson  🕊‏ @anotherday____ Oct 12
          Replying to @anotherday____ @hugohanoi and

          (Never said dispersion is ineffective—i.e. censorship resistant—I am saying that dispersion logics contradict the scale logic on which your overarching claim is made. If we take dispersion as positive then something in your argument is absurd logically speaking).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Viktor Arvidsson  🕊‏ @anotherday____ Oct 12
          Replying to @anotherday____ @hugohanoi and

          ((Sorry irresistant—too many negations.))

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Oct 13
          Replying to @anotherday____ @stephanlivera @NickSzabo4

          Obviously degree of decentralization matters, i.e., dispersion over 200 countries is better than 2. But you're missing the point. Point is PoW has this defensive option *at all*, due to physical HW on the ground. Disperse hardware is the last line of defense if pools are hacked.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Oct 13
          Replying to @hugohanoi @anotherday____ and

          In comparison, PoS validators are merely software & required to have sensitive keys online to sign txs. Validators can be targeted from anywhere remotely. Once keys are stolen & majority control lost (btw the threshold for majority control in PoS is 1/3, not 1/2), you’re screwed.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 2 more replies
        1. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Oct 12
          Replying to @hugohanoi @anotherday____ and

          I used “geographically decentralized” to differentiate against other types of decentralization - as mining involves both software & hardware. If you prefer distributed, that’s good too. Don’t think semantics matters here. 🤷🏼‍♂️

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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