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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    1. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
      Replying to @SGBarbour @el33th4xor

      Not quite, @el33th4xor is still wrong. Staking *itself* requires little to no energy expenditure. Emin is confusing the creation of value (internally) from the *transfer* of value.

      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    2. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
      Replying to @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

      You're just repeating the "labor theory of value" now, a thoroughly debunked idea, even though you walked away from it earlier. If you believe that wasting energy in coin production brings value, you must explain why the Baht is with less than USD.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
      Replying to @el33th4xor @SGBarbour

      Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

      And you keep repeating your argument without considering the other half of the equation, un-forgeability. Did I bring up the Labor theory of value?https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1046105642870681600 …

      Hugo Nguyen added,

      Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
      Replying to @el33th4xor
      You're missing half the equation. Energy cost doesn't *guarantee* value, but all things valuable must cost energy. The other required ingredient is un-forgeability.
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
      Replying to @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

      Yes, you did :-). Without mentioning its name. Bear with me for a couple of tweets and I'll try to clarify some myths.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
      Replying to @el33th4xor @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

      Bitcoin's unforgeability isn't rooted in energy spent on coin production. That's a common myth.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
      Replying to @el33th4xor @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

      True, an external attacker who wants to change the record needs to buy 51% of hashpower. Another way to phrase it is that he needs to "stake hardware". That's what pow is, a specific form of stake, currently at the vagaries of ASIC manufacturers.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
      Replying to @el33th4xor @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

      The energy spent on coin production is purely wasted, it provides no price floor for coins, it is value leaked out of the system. Much like how the high cost of printing Bahts doesn't guarantee value higher than USD. It's just the cost of competition between miners.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
      Replying to @el33th4xor @SGBarbour

      > energy spent on coin production is purely wasted That's a fallacy that is a result of not understanding stock & flow. Energy spent per block is what creates the larger cost barrier in hardware stock. Hardware stock == integral of future (energy) flows.https://medium.com/@hugonguyen/bitcoin-stock-flow-c4d4db98b751 …

      2 replies 3 retweets 6 likes
    9. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
      Replying to @hugohanoi @el33th4xor @SGBarbour

      Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

      "Energy spent per block is wasted" has also been thoroughly debunked by @LaurentMT's article. Same idea, stock == accumulation of flows.https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1034168617351372800 …

      Hugo Nguyen added,

      Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
      1/ Great article by @LaurentMT ! The TL;DR is that energy spent per block contributes not just to UTXOs belonging in that block, but retroactively to all global & past UTXOs. The often-cited “energy spent per Bitcoin tx” number in many economic papers is flawed for this reason. https://twitter.com/LaurentMT/status/1034046547896492032 …
      Show this thread
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
      Replying to @hugohanoi @SGBarbour @LaurentMT

      This article is thoroughly unrelated. I don't disagree with what Laurent said, nor does it contradict anything I said. But I can't correct every wrong person on the Internet, especially if they are both belligerent and just free-associating. Learn to engage and try again. Best.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
      Replying to @el33th4xor @SGBarbour @LaurentMT

      Oh but it is very much related :-) I’m explaining to you how the “ongoing costs” that you consider waste absolutely contribute to Bitcoin unforgeability. The hardware “stake” represents the accumulation of all future energy flows.

      8:19 PM - 29 Sep 2018
      • 1 Retweet
      • 1 Like
      • Mission X
      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
          Replying to @hugohanoi @el33th4xor and

          PoS stake is not an equivalent of this, there’s nothing “unforgeable” about transferring financial capital into a dubious asset. Long range attacks is one example of how moving wealth into an asset does not make it unforgeable.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
          Replying to @hugohanoi @el33th4xor and

          It’s fine if you don’t want to engage, but at least we can agree on 2 things in this thread: 1/ Labor theory of value is invalid 2/ Energy expenditure AND unforgeability are required ingredients for money

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
          Replying to @hugohanoi @el33th4xor and

          Where we differ is for (2), you think PoS expends energy (which is kinda ironic given that the common argument for PoS is that it does NOT expend energy) and unforgeable. Both I disagree with.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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