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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    1. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29

      5/ If an object has value, people *will* spend effort to chase it, up to whatever the object is worth. MC=MR, in other words. PoS won’t save you from PoW’s “waste”, cost just manifests in a different way. “Nothing is cheaper than PoW”. h/t @Truthcoin http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ …

      2 replies 6 retweets 54 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29

      6/ PoW is what gives Bitcoin “unforgeable costliness”, something few CS people would even try to analyze. @NickSzabo4 spent years researching & elaborately explained in his study on the Origin of Money: (Good) money *must* have unforgeable costliness. https://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/ 

      3 replies 13 retweets 59 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29

      7/ PoW is a lot more than Sybil-control, it gives digital blocks real-world weight, the same way Gold has real weight. What are blocks but simply a bunch of 1s & 0s? PoW is the _bridge_ between the digital & the physical.https://bitcointechtalk.com/the-anatomy-of-proof-of-work-98c85b6f6667 …

      2 replies 9 retweets 60 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
      Replying to @hugohanoi

      I see you create a lot of words, many ad hominem, but there isn't a single tangible argument here. Is the argument that, because energy is expended in the real world, the coins have value? Since the Thai Baht is colorful and expensive to print, it should be worth more than USD?

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
      Replying to @el33th4xor

      You're missing half the equation. Energy cost doesn't *guarantee* value, but all things valuable must cost energy. The other required ingredient is un-forgeability.

      2 replies 1 retweet 12 likes
    6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
      Replying to @hugohanoi @el33th4xor

      Both the Thai Baht and the US dollars can be easily inflated (another form of forgeability), therefore they are not good money.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    7. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
      Replying to @hugohanoi

      Indeed, that's why I work on these systems. But back to your assertion: "stake" needs to be acquired by buying the tokens, and therefore requires energy expenditure, invalidating your argument.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Steve Barbour  ⛏‏ @SGBarbour Sep 29
      Replying to @el33th4xor @hugohanoi

      It is true that buying stake implies energy expenditure (trading wealth for stake). However once you've bought a stake increasing it requires 0 additional energy expenditure. That's the difference. "The censor cannot be unseated because he has acquired majority stake"

      2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    9. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
      Replying to @SGBarbour @el33th4xor

      Not quite, @el33th4xor is still wrong. Staking *itself* requires little to no energy expenditure. Emin is confusing the creation of value (internally) from the *transfer* of value.

      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    10. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
      Replying to @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

      You're just repeating the "labor theory of value" now, a thoroughly debunked idea, even though you walked away from it earlier. If you believe that wasting energy in coin production brings value, you must explain why the Baht is with less than USD.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
      Replying to @el33th4xor @SGBarbour

      Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

      And you keep repeating your argument without considering the other half of the equation, un-forgeability. Did I bring up the Labor theory of value?https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1046105642870681600 …

      Hugo Nguyen added,

      Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
      Replying to @el33th4xor
      You're missing half the equation. Energy cost doesn't *guarantee* value, but all things valuable must cost energy. The other required ingredient is un-forgeability.
      1:08 PM - 29 Sep 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • Dennis Porteaux _GIBUS_ ⚡️🐉[Hodl]🐲🚀
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
          Replying to @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

          Yes, you did :-). Without mentioning its name. Bear with me for a couple of tweets and I'll try to clarify some myths.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
          Replying to @el33th4xor @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

          Bitcoin's unforgeability isn't rooted in energy spent on coin production. That's a common myth.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
          Replying to @el33th4xor @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

          True, an external attacker who wants to change the record needs to buy 51% of hashpower. Another way to phrase it is that he needs to "stake hardware". That's what pow is, a specific form of stake, currently at the vagaries of ASIC manufacturers.

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
          Replying to @el33th4xor @hugohanoi @SGBarbour

          The energy spent on coin production is purely wasted, it provides no price floor for coins, it is value leaked out of the system. Much like how the high cost of printing Bahts doesn't guarantee value higher than USD. It's just the cost of competition between miners.

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
          Replying to @el33th4xor @SGBarbour

          > energy spent on coin production is purely wasted That's a fallacy that is a result of not understanding stock & flow. Energy spent per block is what creates the larger cost barrier in hardware stock. Hardware stock == integral of future (energy) flows.https://medium.com/@hugonguyen/bitcoin-stock-flow-c4d4db98b751 …

          2 replies 3 retweets 6 likes
        7. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
          Replying to @hugohanoi @el33th4xor @SGBarbour

          Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

          "Energy spent per block is wasted" has also been thoroughly debunked by @LaurentMT's article. Same idea, stock == accumulation of flows.https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1034168617351372800 …

          Hugo Nguyen added,

          Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
          1/ Great article by @LaurentMT ! The TL;DR is that energy spent per block contributes not just to UTXOs belonging in that block, but retroactively to all global & past UTXOs. The often-cited “energy spent per Bitcoin tx” number in many economic papers is flawed for this reason. https://twitter.com/LaurentMT/status/1034046547896492032 …
          Show this thread
          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        8. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Sep 29
          Replying to @hugohanoi @SGBarbour @LaurentMT

          This article is thoroughly unrelated. I don't disagree with what Laurent said, nor does it contradict anything I said. But I can't correct every wrong person on the Internet, especially if they are both belligerent and just free-associating. Learn to engage and try again. Best.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 29
          Replying to @el33th4xor @SGBarbour @LaurentMT

          Oh but it is very much related :-) I’m explaining to you how the “ongoing costs” that you consider waste absolutely contribute to Bitcoin unforgeability. The hardware “stake” represents the accumulation of all future energy flows.

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        10. 3 more replies
        1. _GIBUS_  ⚡️ 🐉[Hodl] 🐲 🚀‏ @_GIBUS_ Sep 29
          Replying to @hugohanoi @el33th4xor @SGBarbour

          off topic trivia ; about forgeability and the baht, those 10baht work in euro vending machines 😅pic.twitter.com/eGhFM8M5z0

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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