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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

    Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Alex Mizrahi

    1/ What is handwaving & sloppy thinking is ignoring subtle but important differences between PoW & PoS. Such as the *degree of social consensus required* - in terms of both magnitude & frequency.https://twitter.com/killerstorm/status/1044522585663447040 …

    Hugo Nguyen added,

    Alex Mizrahi @killerstorm
    Replying to @killerstorm @hugohanoi
    analyze the core protocol and improve it. But instead people prefer to handwave something about "decentralization" and "trustlessness" without ever considering the ACTUAL threat model. Did you ever consider what are you going to do in the scenario of a 51% attack? Suppose the
    9:26 PM - 25 Sep 2018
    • 3 Retweets
    • 8 Likes
    • Distributed Bit 🛰️📡⛓️ Giacomo Zucco Matthew 2357_is_prime ⚡️ CryptoUniverse unconfirmed Justin Smith Sar Haribhakti Mit
    3 replies 3 retweets 8 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

        2/ …or relative security strength under sync & semi-sync settings.https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1040663728042082304 …

        Hugo Nguyen added,

        Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
        Replying to @hugohanoi @aparnalocked
        Simply put, under semi-sync setting, PoW strongly satisfies liveness & consistency. Whereas PoS protocols do not & break down under a number of scenarios. See my 2 articles for a few examples of these scenarios & the addition by @Datavetaren https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1021832568314843136 …
        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        3/ A lot of terminology in this space are unfortunately imprecise. When we talk of “immutability”, “decentralization”, “trustlessness”, we don’t really mean them in the binary yes/no sense, but it’s often over a spectrum. A better term than “trustless” is “trust-minimized”.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        4/ No one handwaves away the problem of trust & decentralization in PoW - that’s a baseless claim. I’ve found that Bitcoiners are often the most paranoid when it comes to the threat of centralization, mining centralization in particular.

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        Show this thread
      5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        5/ Many PoW proponents are self-critical of PoW, but also realize that PoW is the best we’ve got.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        Show this thread
      6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        6/ RE: upgrade process, is there room for improvement? Probably. 

 Is some sort of an alert system for upgrades worthwhile? Maybe. Maybe not.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      7. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        7/ The idea of an alert system isn’t new. Satoshi himself wrote about the possibility of “fraud proofs” in the white paper.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      8. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        8/ Fraud-proofs & upgrade-alerts can be classified under the same umbrella. Both are alert systems, although the type of alert message differs. Any alert system will face similar challenges as fraud proofs.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      9. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        9/ Fraud proofs as initially envisioned by Satoshi turn out to be extremely difficult & might actually be impractical. Intuitively it makes sense, since alerts reintroduce the problem of distributed consensus. Not a trivial problem to solve without PoW.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      10. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        10/ You need to be extremely careful in designing alert systems because alerts themselves can become security holes. E.g. alerts can be abused to spam/DDOS nodes, or to create conflicting views of the network.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      11. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        11/ The current system, as imperfect as it is, is not all that bad. Worst comes to worst, users can either: (a) verify the source code themselves & build from source, or (b) choose to ignore upgrades

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      12. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        12/ Sure, most users don’t know how to read code, but what’s most important is economically important nodes like exchanges & wallets. They can & SHOULD verify every protocol changes. They are incentivized to do so because if things fuck up, they would sustain the most damage.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      13. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        13/ As for the rest of the users, yes they will have to trust someone for upgrades. But upgrades don’t happen too frequently to begin with, and the trust issue is another reason to strongly advocate for earlier-rather-later protocol ossification.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      14. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

        14/ > It seems that pro-PoW people just gave up on analyzing the system, they just say "It works because nobody have broken it yet” Another baseless claim. Bitcoin security is a very active area of research. We've merely scratched the surface. Seehttps://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1027667455773212673 …

        Hugo Nguyen added,

        Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
        I just published “A Review of Budish’s 51% Attack Theories - What is the Fair Price of An Old ASIC?” https://medium.com/p/a-review-of-budishs-51-attack-theories-what-is-the-fair-price-of-an-old-asic-59a7dcf9ff94 …
        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        Show this thread
      15. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 25

        15/ What PoW proponents are saying is that PoW is the most secure system both in theory & practice, with a 10-year track record. Can PoW fail? Sure. Can PoS succeed where PoW might fail? Absolutely freaking not. 🙂

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        Show this thread
      16. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Alex Mizrahi‏ @killerstorm Sep 26
        Replying to @hugohanoi

        My whole point is that difference between PoW and PoS is indeed subtle and matter of degrees. While most PoW proponents are like "PoS is obviously broken, PoW is the only way". If we can get to the point where we can talk about trade-offs, I'll be happy with it.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 26
        Replying to @killerstorm

        I agree with the 1st part, disagree with the 2nd part :-) To me & to many, PoS is indeed obviously broken. It's reinventing a decades-old wheel & a dead end. If PoS were truly viable, we shouldn't have to wait until today to have uncensorable money.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Alex Mizrahi‏ @killerstorm Sep 26
        Replying to @hugohanoi

        I'm not sure how much you know about PoS. There are many different approaches, some quite intricate and subtle, and typically it requires separate issuance phase, which can be done using PoW.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 26
        Replying to @killerstorm

        Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

        PoS protocols all share the same fundamental flaws although the way they choose to obfuscate the problems vary. It boils down to 2 main variants: either checkpointing or outright reliance on chain freeze/social consensus. See my linked tweets.https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1021832568314843136?s=21 …

        Hugo Nguyen added,

        Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
        For those who are interested, my prior articles on this: 1/ https://medium.com/@hugonguyen/proof-of-stake-the-wrong-engineering-mindset-15e641ab65a2 … 2/ https://medium.com/@hugonguyen/proof-of-stake-private-keys-attacks-and-unforgeable-costliness-the-unsung-hero-5caca70b01cb …
        Show this thread
        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. 𝐌𝐚𝐫𝐢𝐞  🇮🇹‏ @marie_dm_ Sep 26
        Replying to @hugohanoi

        @threader_app thanks for compiling this

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Threader‏ @threader_app Sep 26
        Replying to @marie_dm_

        Hey, read this thread from @hugohanoi here:https://threader.app/thread/1044805398488920065 …

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation

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