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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    1. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 13

      1/ Nice to see more in-depth articles investigating the extremely important role randomness plays in blockchains 🙂 h/t @aparnalocked However, IMO this analysis of randomness is incomplete 🙁https://www.tokendaily.co/blog/randomness-in-blockchains …

      3 replies 2 retweets 9 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Aparna Krishnan‏ @aparnalocked Sep 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi

      Again, the focus of this post was on only randomness for leader election. We have a whole paper that does a more in othe analysis of all the parts that you talk about :)https://github.com/Mechanism-Labs/MetaAnalysis-of-Alternative-Consensus-Protocols …

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
    3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 14
      Replying to @aparnalocked

      Ah I see, did not know there was another part 😂 I'm generally trigger-happy because I'm frustrated with all the PoS discussions of randomness that say nothing about unforgeable costliness 🙂 Sorry for jumping the gun then. Look forward to part 2!

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi @aparnalocked

      >None of the subcommittee selection protocols that we at Mechanism Labs have analyzed satisfied both properties of being unbiasable FWIW, I highly agree with this- hard to guarantee both liveness & safety RE:leader-election randomness. Not sure I'd agree with the compromise tho.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Aparna Krishnan‏ @aparnalocked Sep 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi

      I think that's where the dimension of synchrony comes in. I definitely have not even touched upon it in this post because that's a much longer analysis.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 14
      Replying to @aparnalocked

      Favoring liveness over safety or relaxing synchrony assumptions won't make PoS protocols any safer. PoS camp likes to say that Bitcoin also doesn't work under a fully async setting, but they overlook important nuances in the level of security offered in the semi-sync setting.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Aparna Krishnan‏ @aparnalocked Sep 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi

      PoS protocols don't all favor liveness over safety. I think you are generalizing your claims about PoS too much. There is a lot more nuance to consider.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 14
      Replying to @aparnalocked

      I didn't say all PoS protocols favor liveness. Referring to your passage: > given the above tradeoff, a blockchain consensus protocol should favor a randomness source that always produces some output rather than a randomness source that favors producing only a tamper free output

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi @aparnalocked

      I know Tendermint favors safety over liveness, which is applaudable. But it has its own problem. Its strategy is to fall back on social consensus. In any case, the safety vs liveness tradeoff is a fundamental problem to PoS that doesn't exist for PoW. Most solutions are hacks.

      12:06 PM - 14 Sep 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 14
          Replying to @hugohanoi @aparnalocked

          ... that attempt to work around this flaw, at the cost of adding a huge amount of needless complexity. And they are all bandaid solutions.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Aparna Krishnan‏ @aparnalocked Sep 14
          Replying to @hugohanoi

          yes because PoW family currently doesn't provide absolute finality. It doesn't have the problem because it doesn't even provide that property.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 14
          Replying to @aparnalocked

          Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

          "finality" is a PoS invention & a total illusion. Just because someone terms something "final" doesn't mean it's actually "final" ;-)https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/953346280134029312 …

          Hugo Nguyen added,

          Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
          2/ PoS: subjective interpretation of immutability. The source of truth is someone saying this ledger is real & final. All things that require subjectivity can potentially be subverted. https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/952714149582159873 …
          Show this thread
          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Aparna Krishnan‏ @aparnalocked Sep 14
          Replying to @hugohanoi

          Aparna Krishnan Retweeted Ari Paul

          the concept of finalization has existed in distributed systems for a long time. The terminology may be more recent but not the concept. For a deeper understanding of finality in PoS vs PoW look at thishttps://twitter.com/AriDavidPaul/status/1035337279219347456 …

          Aparna Krishnan added,

          Ari PaulVerified account @AriDavidPaul
          Good article on finality: https://medium.com/mechanism-labs/finality-in-blockchain-consensus-d1f83c120a9a …
          Show this thread
          1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
        5. CryptoMoon‏ @crypt0moon Sep 14
          Replying to @aparnalocked @hugohanoi

          CryptoMoon Retweeted Eric Wall

          https://twitter.com/ercwl/status/1035342598926487552?s=19 …

          CryptoMoon added,

          Eric Wall @ercwl
          Replying to @AriDavidPaul
          Technically, all forms of finality are probabilistic, since the base-layer for all blockchains is social consensus. The DAO hacker wouldn't have had more finality with Casper over PoW. As such, Bitcoin's probabilistic finality is more "final" than all altcoin consensus variants.
          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Aparna Krishnan‏ @aparnalocked Sep 14
          Replying to @crypt0moon @hugohanoi

          Aparna Krishnan Retweeted Ari Paul

          I'm not going to have a debate that has been had plenty of times before haha. https://twitter.com/AriDavidPaul/status/1035585570846715906 … is a wonderful thread to explain the subtle differences.

          Aparna Krishnan added,

          Ari PaulVerified account @AriDavidPaul
          This article seems to have touched a nerve on its use of the term "probabilistic finality." I don't really care about the marketing, and I didn't interpret this as a criticism of PoW or Bitcoin generally. Here's how I think about probability and consensus mechanisms generally: https://twitter.com/AriDavidPaul/status/1035337279219347456 …
          Show this thread
          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 14
          Replying to @aparnalocked @crypt0moon

          haha we’re citing Ari for distributed system expertise now? no offense but Ari doesn’t know what he’s talking about 😜 “endogenous non-probabilistic finality”? Really? Again, there’s nothing “absolute” about PoS absolute finality.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        8. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Sep 14
          Replying to @hugohanoi @aparnalocked @crypt0moon

          PoS “finality” is 100% revertible under scenarios such as long range attacks, private key attacks or network partitions. Just be a PoS node, go offline for a year & see how you will tell among many chains, which chain is “final” chain.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Aparna Krishnan‏ @aparnalocked Sep 14
          Replying to @hugohanoi @crypt0moon

          PoS alone never provided finality, PBFT did. Anyway, I think we can agree to disagree on what we mean by final. This is becoming a less theoretical more ideological debate.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 3 more replies

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