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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    1. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Aug 14
      Replying to @kaykurokawa @evoskuil and

      Again, this doesn’t explain how hardware cost contributes nothing to security. These 2 things you’re talking about are completely orthogonal.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Aug 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi @kaykurokawa and

      Assuming: (a) avg hardware capacity of X TH/s (b) avg efficiency of Y J/GH Combined with: (c) avg block reward $R/day (d) 10-min-per-block constraint These 4 factors together create a _market equilibrium_ where there is an optimal level of hash rate (& mining hardware).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Aug 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi @kaykurokawa and

      Sure, if the hash rate goes above the optimal level (e.g., in case of an attack), it costs roughly the same to the defender & the attacker, for any extra hash rate. No one disputes that. But that is *orthogonal* to the fact that there is an optimal level of hash rate.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Aug 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi @kaykurokawa and

      A “majority” attack, by definition, has to take into account this hardware cost in acquiring majority hash rate - that was previously at equilibrium.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Aug 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi @kaykurokawa and

      Budish took this hardware cost into consideration - and called it the stock cost (God, does anyone actually bother to read Budish paper?). The only difference between his & my calculation is the question of the price of prev-gen ASICs, not that the stock cost doesn’t exist!

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Aug 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi @kaykurokawa and

      Budish model, while inaccurate, is still more interesting than this oversimplified economic nonsense.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Eric Voskuil‏ @evoskuil Aug 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi @kaykurokawa and

      Only as complex as necessary.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Eric Voskuil‏ @evoskuil Aug 14
      Replying to @evoskuil @hugohanoi and

      Maybe you should consider how the free market overcomes state censorship without fees. In this scenario all miners earn the same return on capital, whether censoring or not. And given that all mining and transacting would be illicit, the state has the advantage in pooled mining.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Eric Voskuil‏ @evoskuil Aug 14
      Replying to @evoskuil @hugohanoi and

      When something becomes illicit it continues only because prices to obtain/do the illicit thing increase to offset the cost of the state attack. If this is not possible, the thing is dead. Similarly it dies if the increase benefits attacker as much as attacked (no net increase).

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Aug 14
      Replying to @evoskuil @kaykurokawa and

      Fees drive everything, including hardware investment. We *need* fees. No one disputes that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Aug 14
      Replying to @hugohanoi @evoskuil and

      What you are missing by saying only current fees - negotiated at one particular moment in time - matter for security & not hardware cost, is that hardware cost is *also a manifestation of fees* - more precisely, it is the stream of future fees, discounted back to the present.

      12:18 PM - 14 Aug 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Eric Voskuil‏ @evoskuil Aug 14
          Replying to @hugohanoi @kaykurokawa and

          What you are missing is that this is not relevant to security. What gives the market power is the ability to raise fees for non-censors only. Fees are the only aspect of Bitcoin mining that exhibits this essential security characteristic.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Eric Voskuil‏ @evoskuil Aug 14
          Replying to @evoskuil @hugohanoi and

          And no, that fact that fees are used to purchase hardware does not imply that hardware exhibits this characteristic. Disproportiately higher fees to non-censors is the basis of confirmation security. What a miner buys with their reward is inconsequential.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Aug 14
          Replying to @evoskuil @kaykurokawa and

          I see you don't understand even the basics of stock vs. flow :-) I think I'm done here.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Eric Voskuil‏ @evoskuil Aug 14
          Replying to @hugohanoi @kaykurokawa and

          So maybe you think that the state and the market experience capital differently, as otherwise it is irrelevant to security.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation

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