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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    1. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      12/ It’s possible that not all claims will be honored, since the number of claims is *unbounded*. When there’re too many claims, you can only reward the miners who contributed the most amount of PoW, not every single one.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      13/ The first claim is always by the miner who successfully mined the block. So there will always be at least one claim for each pot of reward.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      14/ Potential problems with such a protocol: - Huge overhead in validation / traffic, as nodes will have a lot of claims to process / propagate

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    4. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      15/ Miner who mines block T+100 has a lot of power in terms of choosing what claims to honor. He can’t include a bogus claim, but he can choose which claims in the mempool to include / overlook. Not clear if this is solvable.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      16/ What if someone retroactively goes back and mines block T. He won’t be able to rewrite the block, but he could send a claim for block T even though he did not originally work on block T. Effectively “stealing the pot”.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      17/ One possible way to alleviate (not eliminate) this problem is to limit the amount of reward that could be re-distributed beyond the initial miner. Say, initial miner is guaranteed at least 50% of the pot.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Show this thread
    7. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      18/ Biggest problem: Complexity. Already you can see how much complexity is added to the protocol to accommodate sharing behavior. There are potentially many unknown gaming behaviors that can arise due to the added rules. Complexity is the enemy of security. Exhibit A: Ethereum.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      Show this thread
    8. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

      19/ Conclusion: IMO, if sharing reward is desirable, it's much better to add that functionality via a higher layer protocol, such as BetterHash, without compromising the underlying protocol. Unix philosophy has served us extremely well.https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1004455570953330689 …

      Hugo Nguyen added,

      Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
      @TheBlueMatt's brilliant proposal that separates 1/ block construction process from 2/ payout process. You'll still get the benefit of connecting to a pool (stable payouts) while not conceding the right to propose a block. Best of both worlds solution that will help d14n. 💪💪 https://twitter.com/TheBlueMatt/status/1004106026721972224 …
      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
      Show this thread
    9. Bob McElrath‏ @BobMcElrath Jun 10
      Replying to @hugohanoi

      I like @TheBlueMatt's proposal a lot and intend to incorporate basically everything there, but with BetterHash you still have to trust the pool operator. Two additional things #braidpool gives you are: 1. Removal of trusted pool operator 2. Solution to the selfish mining attack

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 10
      Replying to @BobMcElrath @TheBlueMatt

      Thanks for all the comments. Very interesting :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 10
      Replying to @hugohanoi @BobMcElrath @TheBlueMatt

      Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Bob McElrath

      I want to focus on this comment of yours, since IMO it touches on the crux of the challenge when designing such a protocol. Using DAG (vs. a simple linked-list) sounds to me more like an optimization and less fundamental. 

(cc @real_vijay)https://twitter.com/BobMcElrath/status/1005753364704104449 …

      Hugo Nguyen added,

      Bob McElrath @BobMcElrath
      Replying to @hugohanoi
      In p2pool and #braidpool all payouts must be committed to in the shares. The shares are valid Bitcoin blocks with lower PoW. So the winning miner has no choice in the payout -- he committed to it before he started hashing that block and can't change it afterwards.
      8:44 AM - 10 Jun 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • Cryptoconomy ⚡ Vijay Boyapati
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 10
          Replying to @hugohanoi @BobMcElrath and

          Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Jimmy Song (송재준)

          @jimmysong thinks that there’s no way to ensure that the winning miner cannot cheat, i.e., ignore/censor shares. I’m inclined to agree, curious on how #braidpool solves this.
https://twitter.com/jimmysong/status/1005630024396017664 …

          Hugo Nguyen added,

          Jimmy Song (송재준) @jimmysong
          Replying to @jimmysong @real_vijay @hugohanoi
          actually, nevermind. I don't think this can work because the final PoW has to record this somehow and there's no way to make it not cheat. It can say it didn't see any shares even if it did.
          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 10
          Replying to @hugohanoi @BobMcElrath and

          > "the winning miner has no choice in the payout -- he committed to it before he started hashing that block and can't change it afterwards." How does "commitment" work? is commitment backed by PoW?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Bob McElrath‏ @BobMcElrath Jun 10
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TheBlueMatt and

          The commitment is to a set of half-signed lightning payments dependent on the channel in the coinbase, signed by the block creator. So yes it's backed by PoW.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 10
          Replying to @BobMcElrath @TheBlueMatt and

          Ok. And you said the miner made the commitment *before he started hashing that block*? So does the commitment have any weight before the block has been mined? I'm trying to understand how you prevent the miner from dropping / censoring shares in the payout.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Bob McElrath‏ @BobMcElrath Jun 10
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TheBlueMatt and

          No it has no weight before he mines the block. It's a Merkle tree commitment just like the transaction Merkle root used in Bitcoin. It's worthless unless you solve the PoW. But if you solve the PoW without the correct commitment, it's an invalid share and won't get paid.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 10
          Replying to @BobMcElrath @TheBlueMatt and

          "Invalid" as in Bitcoin full nodes will reject blocks without correct commitment, right? So full nodes need to update their consensus rules to be aware of this payout commitment in the coinbase? Does #braidpool require a soft/hard fork?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Bob McElrath‏ @BobMcElrath Jun 10
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TheBlueMatt and

          These are share-chain blocks, so the share-chain will reject blocks without correct commitments. Bitcoin is blissfully unaware this is going on (and doesn't need to be aware).

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 10
          Replying to @BobMcElrath @TheBlueMatt and

          Interesting. What happens if the share-chain reject a block but the main chain accepts it? Don't the main chain rules override the share-chain rules?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 11 more replies
        1. Bob McElrath‏ @BobMcElrath Jun 10
          Replying to @hugohanoi @TheBlueMatt @real_vijay

          p2pool lowered the block rate to 30s and sees ~30% orphan rates. As such, it punishes latency much more heavily than the main chain. You just can't run a blockchain with 1s block intervals. You can with a DAG.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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