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hugohanoi's profile
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
Hugo Nguyen
@hugohanoi

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Hugo Nguyen

@hugohanoi

I chain, therefore I am ⛓️

Joined April 2012

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    1. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Vijay Boyapati

      1/ Exploring this line of thought some more. H/t @real_vijay for raising a very interesting question. There are 2 big challenges if you want to bake “reward sharing” into the protocol: a/ Keeping a record of “who did what” b/ Payout distribution process that honors that^ recordhttps://twitter.com/real_vijay/status/1004962539187257345 …

      Hugo Nguyen added,

      Vijay Boyapati @real_vijay
      Replying to @hugohanoi
      I know it's not possible with Bitcoin now, but is it possible under some other protocol that might at some point be incorporated into Bitcoin? E.g., if you contribute 0.1% of hash power you get 0.1% of the reward, per block without requiring pooling?
      3 replies 3 retweets 20 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      2/ Below is a hypothetical model to examine these challenges in details. It’s by no means the only way to do it, but regardless of how you do it, you’d need to solve the 2 problems above.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      3/ Hypothetical reward-sharing protocol, modified from Bitcoin: - Introduce the concept of a "Claim" - Defer rewards by changing how coinbase transactions work.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    4. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      4/ A “claim” is proof of past participation in a previous mining round. Concretely, it’s a block whose hash might or might NOT meet the difficulty target of a particular height, but is valid otherwise. Very similar to how miners claim their shares from Stratum pools today.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Show this thread
    5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      5/ The difference is that claims would be accepted as first-class citizens by the protocol & the nodes, just like transactions & blocks. Blocks still need to meet difficulty target to be added to the chain.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      6/ Nodes validate claims just like they would validate normal blocks. If the claims are valid, they get added to a “claim mempool” (similar to a transaction mempool), maintained by all full nodes. The claim mempool is the record of “who did what”.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
      Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

      7/ You could, in theory, record valid claims (in a compressed format) directly into the blocks, but block space is already hard to come by, even for txs. So storing this record off-chain in a mempool is more practical.

      6:09 PM - 9 Jun 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Cryptoconomy ⚡
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          8/ Miners are free to send claims for a past block up to a certain point (claiming process can’t go on indefinitely). Say, 100 blocks after the original block has been mined.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
          Show this thread
        3. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          9/ At height T+100 the protocol mandates that payouts for block T must go out to individual miners. It’s important that payouts for a specific block go out at the same time & not incrementally, since you need all claims before you can calculate correct share percentages.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
          Show this thread
        4. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          10/ Modified definition of coinbase tx: The coinbase tx(s) for block T+100 will use claim data recorded in the claim mempool (sorted by PoW in descending order), and pay miners accordingly.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
          Show this thread
        5. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          11/ So coinbase txs in this hypothetical protocol are payouts for *blocks mined in the past*, not the present. They are essentially deferred payments.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
          Show this thread
        6. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          12/ It’s possible that not all claims will be honored, since the number of claims is *unbounded*. When there’re too many claims, you can only reward the miners who contributed the most amount of PoW, not every single one.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
          Show this thread
        7. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          13/ The first claim is always by the miner who successfully mined the block. So there will always be at least one claim for each pot of reward.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
          Show this thread
        8. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          14/ Potential problems with such a protocol: - Huge overhead in validation / traffic, as nodes will have a lot of claims to process / propagate

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
          Show this thread
        9. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          15/ Miner who mines block T+100 has a lot of power in terms of choosing what claims to honor. He can’t include a bogus claim, but he can choose which claims in the mempool to include / overlook. Not clear if this is solvable.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
          Show this thread
        10. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          16/ What if someone retroactively goes back and mines block T. He won’t be able to rewrite the block, but he could send a claim for block T even though he did not originally work on block T. Effectively “stealing the pot”.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
          Show this thread
        11. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          17/ One possible way to alleviate (not eliminate) this problem is to limit the amount of reward that could be re-distributed beyond the initial miner. Say, initial miner is guaranteed at least 50% of the pot.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
          Show this thread
        12. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          18/ Biggest problem: Complexity. Already you can see how much complexity is added to the protocol to accommodate sharing behavior. There are potentially many unknown gaming behaviors that can arise due to the added rules. Complexity is the enemy of security. Exhibit A: Ethereum.

          1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
          Show this thread
        13. Hugo Nguyen‏ @hugohanoi Jun 9

          Hugo Nguyen Retweeted Hugo Nguyen

          19/ Conclusion: IMO, if sharing reward is desirable, it's much better to add that functionality via a higher layer protocol, such as BetterHash, without compromising the underlying protocol. Unix philosophy has served us extremely well.https://twitter.com/hugohanoi/status/1004455570953330689 …

          Hugo Nguyen added,

          Hugo Nguyen @hugohanoi
          @TheBlueMatt's brilliant proposal that separates 1/ block construction process from 2/ payout process. You'll still get the benefit of connecting to a pool (stable payouts) while not conceding the right to propose a block. Best of both worlds solution that will help d14n. 💪💪 https://twitter.com/TheBlueMatt/status/1004106026721972224 …
          2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
          Show this thread
        14. End of conversation
        1. Bob McElrath‏ @BobMcElrath Jun 10
          Replying to @hugohanoi

          This is why the share-chain is a separate blockchain with its own consensus rules.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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