I know way too much about these guys because @DavidFutrelle has been writing about them forever and I would hang around and poke the man-trolls on his blog along with @pecunium, @cloudy_yah, @weirwoodtreehug, @Kootiepatra, and friends.
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There was this one guy who hung around who referred to himself as an "incel." When we talked to him, it turned out he had a fuckbuddy. He was getting all the sex he wanted, and had been for months.
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And yet he still identified as an incel. Because it wasn't the exact kind of sex he wanted in the context of the ideal relationship he wanted, and because he hadn't always been able to have sex in the past, he still felt like he was, in principle, a guy who couldn't get sex.
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Incels fall into this toxic community at a time in their lives when they feel dissatisfied with their relationships and resentful of women, and the community encourages them to base their entire identity as a person around that fact.
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Being in the incel community incentivizes these guys to NOT fix their relationship problems, or if they do find a relationship, to continue to resent women and believe they're not getting what they deserve. Because that's who they are. Their world revolves around that status.
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This is an important way incels differ from other groups of people who want to be in a different place in life (eg, couples trying to conceive): It's natural to leave those groups as your status changes, either by achieving your goal or accepting that you won't. Incels don't.
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Even if we DID have some kind of dystopian forced girlfriend assignment program, these guys would be resentful that they couldn't get a girl without the program, or about which girl they got or how she acted.
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Incels choose to define themselves based on their hatred and resentment of women. Women didn't cause that and nothing women could do would change it.
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It's like talking about fixing a Republican by giving them a tax cut. That's the thing that they talk about wanting. That is not what makes them who they are. You have to make them *not want to be assholes.*
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Great point. It's not like you heard anyone respond to the tax bill with "great, now taxes are just right, we don't have to worry about this issue anymore."
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I think we should try to keep boys from growing into the kind of men who think this way, and, try to get men who think this way, to think like rational people instead, but I don't think appeasing their position is worthwhile, even leaving out the "Make PEOPLE sex them?!?!" part.
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The only real way to address the problem is to change the culture so boys are less entitled from the get go.
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IMHO, "changing the culture" is one of the things we always say is the answer, but, how much is it an achievable answer, especially in any reasonable time frame? And, do we even, actually, *know* how to change culture?
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We can - sometimes, if we're lucky, and pick our battles - get people to agree that saying "X" in public, or, doing "Y" where people can see them, is unacceptable.
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But changing the *culture*, getting to where a certain percentage of people don't, behind closed doors, hold racist/sexist/incel ideas and act, and base their worldview, on those beliefs, is something that I am not sure we actually even *understand* how to do, reliably.
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True.
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There's that, and there's also the simple fact that they're literally crazy people who need medication and therapy
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No attacks on the mentally ill in my mentions, thank you.
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Somehow I got on an incel sub this morning & I was thinking many of these same thoughts. Especially, I thought even the ones getting sex were mad about it not being the sex they wanted. Silly.
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