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gtaogle's profile
System of a Dad
System of a Dad
System of a Dad
@gtaogle

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System of a Dad

@gtaogle

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Baltimore, MD
Joined August 2014

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    1. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      What is true however that civilized men may be led to have a strong dislike for a certain group because that group is -- for example -- a threat. Under normal circumstances, under what situation would a Somali be a threat to an Englishman?

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    2. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      I use the term nativist because it is a fluid category of "us" vs "them". Civic nationalists are nativists who more loosely define "us" (i.e. as people who are willing to follow a certain tradition of law, instead of those ruled by a particular government, territory, ethny etc)

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    3. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      In the action of a political class, the weaker part may take the tack of bringing outsiders into the class or realm to strengthen itself against them. This naturally places some of their own in direct conflict with outsiders!

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    4. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      This naturally generates two distinct positions: 1. Certain neutral outsiders are now a threat; they are disliked. 2. Certain neutral outsiders are now an asset; they are especially liked.

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    5. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      If the society already has significant groups of outsiders, which isn't uncommon, the impulse can begin the other way. Imagine it's 1830 and you're in a region that's 80% black folks. You could easily say, "look what happened in the Haitian revolution!" - quite a voter turnout.

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    6. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      In the absence of democracy, this impulse still exists but is much less profitable on both ends. Whigs still could import foreigners to work cheaply in their factories, but the impact on their political power isn't immediate.

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    7. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      One way to look at the nativist/alienist angle without polluting your mind with skin color heebie-jeebies is to think about Roman Patricians vs. Plebians.

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    8. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      The patricians potentially form a distinct "us" - they had their own marriage rituals, special powers and privileges, etc. But in the balanced state, notable plebian families were incorporated into the class gradually.

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    9. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      This prevented Patricians AND Plebians from forming a highly distinct "us vs them" while still maintaining the thick barrier in fact between the two classes. Neither the nativist nor the alienist impulse could take hold,

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    10. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      In the latter era, the plebians counter-organized. As I understand it this is because they stopped incorporating them. Now this counter-organized group forms a potential political bloc for weaker Patricians to use against their stronger rivals.

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      System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

      Clearly, a state in which a significant portion of *highly distinct* foreigners is imported cannot easily incorporate this "other" and retain the character which allows it to do so. Instead, the failure mode will present itself.

      9:00 AM - 20 Oct 2018
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        2. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

          That is, the nativists will rightly see that assimilation is infeasible and wall themselves off, creating a previously unrealized level of real antagonism against the "other".

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        3. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

          This antagonism, generally unrepresentative of the magnanimous character that the powerful ought to show, is then easily used against them by the counter-party, who will seem to be targeting "themselves."

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        4. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

          But note that the whole conflict here is happening within the group. The risk here is twofold 1. The nativists manage to create a permanent enemy of some group resulting in war 2. The alienists manage to his themselves anyway, causing massive damage to their society

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        5. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

          These tend to happen because the successors of these two original movements, because these movements are saying one thing but really mean another, tend to forget the joke and take the rhetoric completely seriously.

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        6. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

          A funny example of Alienist hypocrisy is that MP from Britain who supposedly took in foreign refugees but it was really the diplomat from some country (for a lot of money) but ended up somehow losing their house because of diplomatic immunity or something of this sort.

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        7. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

          We all know of the person who notoriously had their child killed by illegal aliens but justified it because of the good food trucks. When you are starting to annihilate yourself for the sake of your politics take a pause, ladies and gentlemen!

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        8. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

          The counter example of this, which has no doubt happened, would be a person justifying the loss of all their sons in war because they managed to kill a few of the hated out-group. The French pretty much depleted their society's great force and character this way.

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        9. System of a Dad‏ @gtaogle Oct 20

          rather than claiming, as some men do, that these choices were necessary to be made and thus nations are trapped into degeneration, I'll note, evolutionarily, that the nations that survive are those who were able to produce and elevate leaders able to undertake other options.

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        10. End of conversation

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