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gracecondition's profile
Grace
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@gracecondition

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Grace

@gracecondition

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Joined March 2010

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    1. Grace‏ @gracecondition 10 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @an_interstice

      it makes sense. eg take a simple RL agent, you can get the same behavior from it whether you give negative reward for lava contact, or positive reward for being far from lava but i think it'd get insanely computationally expensive for more complex agents like us

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    2. interstice‏ @an_interstice 11 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @gracecondition

      the fact that behavior is unchanged seems troubling...so if you did this to humans, they would continue to act the exact same way, including screaming "in agony" when in pain, talking about how they are in pain, etc.

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    3. interstice‏ @an_interstice 11 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @an_interstice @gracecondition

      Since behavior is invariant under addition of constants to the utility function, I think whatever account of sense experience we come up with should also be invariant.

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    4. Grace‏ @gracecondition 11 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @an_interstice

      qualia functionalism feels true because our intuitions are so heavily biased by the fact that we only have experience with agents that were produced by evolution. a person's subjective state and outer behavior tend to "match" because it is efficient

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    5. Grace‏ @gracecondition 11 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @gracecondition @an_interstice

      but in public my behavior is the same as a happy person. i'm so good at it that even people who know me well can't tell when it's real or not the reverse also already happens. actors scream in agony and have fun doing it. some people exaggerate pain to get pills from doctors

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    6. Grace‏ @gracecondition 11 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @gracecondition @an_interstice

      we don't see this all the time because simulating a different emotion is inefficient and exhausting, and inefficient agents get outcompeted but if computational expense weren't an issue, you could make agents who pretend full time

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    7. Grace‏ @gracecondition 11 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @gracecondition @an_interstice

      only taking into account "behavior outside the brain" is missing half the picture, especially in non-evolutionary contexts

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    8. interstice‏ @an_interstice 11 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @gracecondition

      Good point about acting. I think the reason this is possible is 1) people use relatively superficial heuristics to judge emotions of others 2) we don't observe others most of the time

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    9. interstice‏ @an_interstice 11 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @an_interstice @gracecondition

      Against a more powerful and patient observer, I think you would essentially need to implement some computation equivalent to whatever agent you are 'faking'. But then it seems like this computation ought to be conscious and have emotions

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    10. interstice‏ @an_interstice 12 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @an_interstice @gracecondition

      I just thought of a counter-example(?), PNSE. People with PNSE verbally report complete absence of suffering, but loved ones say that they can still appear visibly upset http://www.nonsymbolic.org/PNSE-Article.pdf … (page 29)

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      Grace‏ @gracecondition 13 Apr 2019
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      Replying to @an_interstice

      an unnecessarily powerful and complex agent, evolved for a complex world, living in an extremely simple world in which simple agents make the correct moves, whose output is the same as that of a simple agent is the complex agent's experience the same as the simple agent's exper?

      2:18 PM - 13 Apr 2019
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        2. interstice‏ @an_interstice 13 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @gracecondition

          I don't think so. Depending on how complex the emulation of the simple agent is, there could actually be TWO sense-experience sets. (e.g. I think a Chinese room would be like this)

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        3. interstice‏ @an_interstice 13 Apr 2019
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          Replying to @an_interstice @gracecondition

          I think there is a difference between 'agent pretending to be simple' and 'RL agent with only positive reward', though. In the case of the RL agent, even the *internals* of the agent can be simply described with a model that includes suffering.

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