@gorskon @CaulfieldTim @MarkHoofnagle pinging you all.
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Replying to @renissance_1 @Sarah_Mojarad and
It basically has every single bullshit buzzword from detox to antioxidant. There is no evidence of any such regimen providing benefit in any context. You can’t outsmart your body’s physiology with a vitamin overdose. Prima facie bunkum.
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Replying to @MarkHoofnagle @Sarah_Mojarad and
antioxidant is not a buzzword-coq10 is a legitimate antioxidant but the real question is does it treat a post MDMA syndrome.
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Replying to @medjournalist @Sarah_Mojarad and
There is *no evidence* of benefits from antioxidants. That is a failed hypothesis and the ultimate dead parrot of woo. If anything they significantly increase mortality, especially supplementation with lipophilic antioxidants.https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/205797 …
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Replying to @MarkHoofnagle @Sarah_Mojarad and
This was likely written and submitted in 2006. So, 14 years old. It is a meta-analysis involving just a few antioxidants. With an an extremely limited endpoint. Mortality. There are millions of patients interested in things like feeling better from their chronic illness or
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Replying to @medjournalist @MarkHoofnagle and
Being able to discontinue an Rx or having improved body function in an area like sports performance, cognition, sperm count, recovery from injury or shortening the common cold. Antioxidants and other supplements show promise in many of these areas. It is hugely unwise to
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Replying to @medjournalist @MarkHoofnagle and
discount patient reports , small studies, and animal studies. Funding the huge fancy studies that get into JAMA barely happens as Merck does not care if vitamin E helps your psoriatic arthritis. So bringing whether or not you will die in 30 years or 45 after a lifetime of
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Replying to @medjournalist @Sarah_Mojarad and
So, the real high quality data should be discounted because it's a little bit old, but we should pay attention to the small studies and patient reports because of, what exactly? Privilege? It's also nonsense that there isn't a huge amount of money in vitamins to do this work.
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Replying to @MarkHoofnagle @medjournalist and
And, interestingly, she doesn’t bother to cite this allegedly copious evidence.
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Replying to @gorskon @MarkHoofnagle and
It's on PubMed, you are smart enough to find. The JAMA is not high quality, two of the three increase-mortality suspects are not something we would prescribe to a person with normal nutrition, so studying those was a waste of money. The hasty generalization fallacy demonstrated
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“Go PubMed it” is the equivalent of “Go Google it.” It’s shifting the burden of proof. It is not up to me to find evidence to support your assertions. It’s up to you to present your best case.
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Replying to @gorskon @medjournalist and
Well, I support it when it is from a point of challenged expertise - the “I’m not your librarian” retort is fair. But she is not representing the viewpoint of experts here. ACC does not recommend Coq10 for HF. The Symbio result did not replicate. It does not help for myalgia.
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Replying to @MarkHoofnagle @gorskon and
No professional society, except maybe ACOG for prenatal vitamins, recommends routine vitamin supplementation. The evidence from the largest stusies show no benefit. Antioxidants do not have a robust literature to support the use of that word as anything but a woo-woo buzzword.
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