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corvus frugilegus
corvus frugilegus
corvus frugilegus
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corvus frugilegus

@glaebhoerl

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    corvus frugilegus‏ @glaebhoerl 25 Apr 2018

    Rustfolk: With the introduction of NonNull<T> - which comes in *one* flavor that's mutable, covariant, and non-nullable - have we essentially admitted that *const T and *mut T were mistakes? What about adding a *T with those same properties, and deprecating all of the rest?

    9:02 AM - 25 Apr 2018
    • 2 Likes
    • Masaki Hara Zizz Vonnegut
    3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      1. corvus frugilegus‏ @glaebhoerl 25 Apr 2018

        (We could emit a lint if a type contains a `*T` but no `PhantomData`, if we're worried about variance inference, I don't know if we already have something like that)

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Aaron Turon‏ @aaron_turon 25 Apr 2018
        Replying to @glaebhoerl

        With Option for getting nullability? I think there was some obscure other issue but would love this outcome!

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. corvus frugilegus‏ @glaebhoerl 26 Apr 2018
        Replying to @aaron_turon

        corvus frugilegus Retweeted Who ordered *that*?

        Yes, and language guarantees about its representation and whatever else you need. Was it one of the things @ManishEarth mentioned?https://twitter.com/ManishEarth/status/989286766296219648 …

        corvus frugilegus added,

        Who ordered *that*? @ManishEarth
        Replying to @glaebhoerl
        We use nullable pointers a lot in abstractions in firefox, especially when doing stuff with FFI. Yes, you can use Option<*T> here. Now that's super transmutey for doing bitmasks and stuff.
        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. corvus frugilegus‏ @glaebhoerl 26 Apr 2018
        Replying to @glaebhoerl @aaron_turon @ManishEarth

        (Anyway it sounds like this would be controversial.)

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 25 Apr 2018
        Replying to @glaebhoerl

        We use nullable pointers a lot in abstractions in firefox, especially when doing stuff with FFI. Yes, you can use Option<*T> here. Now that's super transmutey for doing bitmasks and stuff.

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      3. corvus frugilegus‏ @glaebhoerl 26 Apr 2018
        Replying to @ManishEarth

        Wait why / what's the difference? Do you mean because `as` exists for */usize but not Option? (We could try to figure something out to improve the situation as part of the solution..)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 26 Apr 2018
        Replying to @glaebhoerl

        Partly yeah. In general adding weirdness/guarantees to types passed over FFI doesn't sit well with me. This proposal seems designed from the unsafe abstractions POV but FFI uses these things too.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. corvus frugilegus‏ @glaebhoerl 26 Apr 2018
        Replying to @ManishEarth

        (It's designed from the "maybe we can simplify things" POV not any particular use case.)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 26 Apr 2018
        Replying to @glaebhoerl

        This complicates things :) We could simplify pointers by removing the const/mut distinction.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 26 Apr 2018
        Replying to @ManishEarth @glaebhoerl

        In abstractions you almost always want NonNull, in FFI it's the opposite.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      8. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 26 Apr 2018
        Replying to @ManishEarth @glaebhoerl

        Furthermore, forgetting NonNull is nbd. Forgetting Option for *T is a big deal. And raw pointers are far more pervasive in FFI. You write one or two raw pointers in a abstractions crate. You write hundreds in FFI

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 26 Apr 2018
        Replying to @ManishEarth @glaebhoerl

        Now, an RFC guaranteeing the repr of Option<NonNull> would be sweet. We used this in Gecko, some types get passed as &T or Option<&T> over FFI and this has helped catch bugs.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      10. End of conversation

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