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fchollet's profile
François Chollet
François Chollet
François Chollet
Verified account
@fchollet

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François CholletVerified account

@fchollet

Deep learning @google. Creator of Keras. Author of 'Deep Learning with Python'. Opinions are my own.

United States
fchollet.com
Joined August 2009

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    1. François Chollet‏Verified account @fchollet 18 Jun 2020

      The purpose of unit tests is not really to check correctness at t=0, which is low-value and can be done via other means. It is to avoid future breakages and to be able to make changes with confidence. Write your tests with this in mind.

      8 replies 107 retweets 638 likes
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    2. François Chollet‏Verified account @fchollet 18 Jun 2020

      This is why you should always seek to get to 100% test coverage, even if you are quite sure your current code is safe and well-written. In a project with hundreds of developers, you can't know what that code will look like in 3 years.

      3 replies 7 retweets 93 likes
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      François Chollet‏Verified account @fchollet 18 Jun 2020

      There is no such thing as a superfluous test. You are testing against unknown unknowns. Against the far future. Against other people. Etc. You should never make any assumptions about what needs testing and what doesn't.

      1:28 PM - 18 Jun 2020
      • 8 Retweets
      • 86 Likes
      • Guzman Ojero Renato Arbex fred Prashanth Rao Harsh Agrawal Yeet Read Kraus Tony Stark Yannis Kalatzis
      5 replies 8 retweets 86 likes
        1. François Chollet‏Verified account @fchollet 18 Jun 2020

          The return-on-investment of a unit test only goes up as a function of time elapsed and number of changes made. For a long-running project, it's the most valuable code you will ever write.

          2 replies 12 retweets 123 likes
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        1. New conversation
        2. Willy Gómez‏ @zxul767 18 Jun 2020
          Replying to @fchollet

          In a world without deadlines, this would be true. In reality, we have to assess risk in various areas of our code and apply our limited testing resources accordingly. I've seen codebases with 100% coverage achieved mostly via unit testing which fail to test crucial scenarios.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Willy Gómez‏ @zxul767 18 Jun 2020
          Replying to @zxul767 @fchollet

          I've also seen teams waste huge amounts of time unit testing trivial pieces of code at the expense of more significant tests. And then unit testing implementation details, which creates a lot of friction when it's time to refactor. Testing is not as simple as "test everything".

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. Malcolm Murdock‏ @sigmoidneuron 18 Jun 2020
          Replying to @fchollet

          You can spend so much time obsessively writing tests that forward progress on product code slows to a crawl. Balance in everything...

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. Juho Kallio‏ @juhopkallio 18 Jun 2020
          Replying to @fchollet

          You are basically protecting some function with your tests. That can also be a cost. In a fresh project I mostly avoid testing internals separately, as I don’t trust them to be the perfect abstractions.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Alexander Lavin‏ @AlexLavin_C137 19 Jun 2020
          Replying to @fchollet

          Disagree. You should test the underlying functionality that matters. This mitigates tech debt over time, and, more importantly, keeps testing in high regard; a repo of 500 respected tests is taken care of, whereas a repo of 5000 aimless tests invites disregard and carelessness.

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