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fchollet's profile
François Chollet
François Chollet
François Chollet
Verified account
@fchollet

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François CholletVerified account

@fchollet

Deep learning @google. Creator of Keras. Author of 'Deep Learning with Python'. Opinions are my own.

United States
fchollet.com
Joined August 2009

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    1. Denny Britz‏ @dennybritz 14 Nov 2018

      Tensorflow 2.0: models migration and new design https://buff.ly/2zvL9oI  Great overview of upcoming TF changes. Personally I agree with the author and I'm not a huge fan of eager mode either. Is it just because I'm used to thinking in terms of a graph? Is eager really superior?

      11 replies 72 retweets 183 likes
    2. François Chollet‏Verified account @fchollet 14 Nov 2018
      Replying to @dennybritz

      I think graphs are the correct mental model and API for deep learning -- but not graph of ops like a TF graphdef, instead, graph of layers. Recursive graphs of high-level building blocks. Which is also how deep NNs are visualized in pretty much every paper or textbook ever...

      2 replies 1 retweet 24 likes
    3. François Chollet‏Verified account @fchollet 14 Nov 2018
      Replying to @fchollet @dennybritz

      Then again, when you're actually developing a new such building block from scratch (like a custom layer), you're probably going to want to do so in an imperative style, because that's what most people are used to (Numpy, Python itself, etc). That's when eager execution comes in.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    4. Denny Britz‏ @dennybritz 14 Nov 2018
      Replying to @fchollet

      I understand that it’s “easier” using an imperative style, but that IMO comes at a cost. My experience is that an imperative style leads throwing stuff at the wall (e.g. notebooks) + iterate/debug. Op graphs force you to think hard about what the computation should look like.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. François Chollet‏Verified account @fchollet 14 Nov 2018
      Replying to @dennybritz

      I think the right API is an API that matches the mental models of end users. People assembling deep networks from existing blocks think in terms of graphs of layers, so that should be the API. People writing forward pass code think in imperative terms, so that should be the API

      1 reply 3 retweets 14 likes
      François Chollet‏Verified account @fchollet 14 Nov 2018
      Replying to @fchollet @dennybritz

      Previously people writing TF V1 graph code for a custom layer would do so *while working from imperative mental models*, and that would lead to a lot frustration. I agree that if you are used to graphs of ops, then it's a fine paradigm, but in practice most people aren't

      5:39 PM - 14 Nov 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • tkasasagi 🐻 @GAF(?)A熊 Behrooz Azarkhalili
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. François Chollet‏Verified account @fchollet 14 Nov 2018
          Replying to @fchollet @dennybritz

          Ultimately the issue is not so much eager vs graph, it's making sure that what users expect (preexisting mental models) matches how the framework looks like and what it does

          1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
        3. Denny Britz‏ @dennybritz 14 Nov 2018
          Replying to @fchollet

          Hiding complexity (which still exists as a graph under the hood) by wrapping an imperative paradigm around it makes the API easier to use, I agree. But it may also lead to lots of issues that will become harder to debug as users don’t understand *why* things don’t work.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. Show replies

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