All it really means is there's nothing more to the essence of a feeling than is known when you know how it feels. Doesn't that seems kind of self-evident? (I know that's not a great argument, and I do have IBE arguments for it, but off the record it does seem to me self-evident)
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Replying to @Philip_Goff @jasonintrator and
It doesn't seem self-evident to me. Feelings are often perplexing, opaque, and I don't know what to say about them until I investigate them, see how they stand in relation to other feelings and thoughts, and learn about their biophysical and sociocultural configurations
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Replying to @evantthompson @jasonintrator and
Do you think there's anything I know about the essence of a feeling when I attend to how it feels? Does Mary learn something about the essence of red experiences when she learns what it's like have one? I think a partial grasp of essence is enough to get the argument going.
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Replying to @Philip_Goff @jasonintrator and
If you put the questions this way, then I would have to say no. I'm very doubtful about the concept of "essence" here. Also, I think the Mary case is just a weak intuition pump that shows nothing decisive.
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Replying to @evantthompson @jasonintrator and
I think there are lots of necessary properties of experiences we know through introspection, e.g. what it's like to see orange is similar to what it's like to see red, & I find it hard to make sense of this if introspection reveals nothing of their essence.
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Replying to @Philip_Goff @evantthompson and
Do we have to 'introspect' to know red and orange look similar?
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Replying to @SisyphusRedemed @evantthompson and
I wasn't talking about red and orange but the character of the *experiences* or red and orange.
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Replying to @Philip_Goff @SisyphusRedemed and
Which thing you call red, and which thing you call orange, and relative to which relation of similarity. As stated, I don’t think there’s any way to tell whether red experiences are similar to orange experiences
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Replying to @NeuroYogacara @Philip_Goff and
You're right
@Philip_Goff that similarity judgments must in principle rely on a metric rather than the metrics being constructed *from* them. One cannot judge similarity without a scale.....2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @crabby_smales @NeuroYogacara and
A is a well-defined unit, and we make similarity judgments without relying on such a unit. We construct the unit and the space by relying on such judgments (e.g. about JNDs)
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Sorry, should be "a metric is a well-defined unit..."
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Replying to @evantthompson @NeuroYogacara and
Yes, so mathematically speaking a metric is a function that gives a distance(i.e. similarity) between pairs of elements of a set and so defines a topology. However, we can't "look" at a pattern of neural stimulation and use some standalone function to define similarity....
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Replying to @crabby_smales @evantthompson and
The stimulus is not just an arbitrary name of some element in a set. It is an encoding that *already embodies* the sensory space within which it is a point. As a toy example, a simple rate coding for intensity on a sensory channel already provides an ordering for stimuli...
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