Is there a difference that makes a difference between saying that enactive computations are not representational *at all* and saying that they are not semantic or symbolic representations, but rather iconic representations? @joe_dewhurst @danwilliamsphil
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Follow-up thought: are second-order cybernetic systems Turing computable? It seems that von Foerster, Maturana, and Varela would say that they are not but I'm not sure as to why.
@evantthompson6 replies 0 retweets 3 likesShow this thread -
Replying to @carl_b_sachs @evantthompson
There's some work on computability in autopoietic systems, have you seen that? From a couple of decades ago now, and I'm not super familiar with it, but I could dig out some references if you're interested.
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Replying to @joe_dewhurst @evantthompson
Please do, I'd also really appreciate it!
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Joe Dewhurst Retweeted Evan Thompson
Evan's already mentioned most of the papers I was thinking of over here, but I'll let you know if I remember anything else:https://twitter.com/evantthompson/status/1139973402456809472 …
Joe Dewhurst added,
Evan Thompson @evantthompsonReplying to @carl_b_sachs1/2 Maturana and Varela didn't explicitly address this. Robert Rosen claimed his M,R systems, which are very close to autopoietic systems, are non computable. I discuss this in Mind in Life. See also …https://www-sciencedirect-com.ezproxy.library.ubc.ca/science/article/pii/S0022519303000341 …1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes -
Replying to @joe_dewhurst @IrisVanRooij and
there is a lot of disc on this topic. this jumps in the middle of things, but is good for seeing the range of discussion: Matteo Mossio, Giuseppe Longo, John Stewart. Computability of closure to efficient causation. In, J. of Theoretical Biology, 257, 3, pp. 489-498, 2009. 1/
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Yes, this is a good one, too, that I forgot to mention.
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