@micahgallen @neuroconscience care to weigh in/clarify?
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Interesting debate! I'm at the pub with
@the_mindwanders now, so taking the easy route here and tagging@mjdramstead
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Replying to @micahgallen @evantthompson and
But from discussing the ergodicity issue with Karl, I think the gist of the response is that this is a kind of convenient mathematical assumption upon which not a lot rest. I.e., it's approximate ergodicity in a given domain that matters. But I'm not sure after three pints...
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Replying to @micahgallen @seanmcarroll and
Can the statistical properties of your pub-going behavior be deduced from a single sufficiently long (or short) random sample? Say hi to Jonny for me.
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Replying to @evantthompson @micahgallen and
The ensemble distribution that defines humans surely assigns a high probability to states associated with socially / physiologically pleasing endeavours (such as pub-going). Ergocidity is only relevant at a certain levels of abstraction.
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Replying to @a_tschantz @evantthompson and
A eukaryote might regularly find itself in the presence of a certain chemical (i.e. N-formylmethioninyl), but their ensemble distribution might assign a high probably to being in the presence of formyl peptides (of which 'N-formylmethioninyl' is a subset)
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Replying to @a_tschantz @evantthompson and
Hey all! Both are right IMO. The FEP only models systems that are *locally ergodic, i.e., have a phenotype or attracting set. FEP doesn't model systems with (e.g.) historical change, only systems with conservative dynamics (so feudal France in 1400 but not the French revolution)
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Replying to @mjdramstead @a_tschantz and
Thanks. Aren't all living systems systems with historical change? And not just contingently, but constitutively? So I'm still skeptical about FEP as a grand unifying principle rather than a simplifying heuristic for certain limited purposes
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Replying to @evantthompson @mjdramstead and
Hope this will help clarify the problem
@evantthompson[...] In this treatment, we have assumed biological systems are ergodic. Clearly, this is a simplification, in that real systems are only locally ergodic...[rest of the para. is important] - Life as we know it, Friston 20131 reply 1 retweet 4 likes -
Replying to @ConstantAxel @mjdramstead and
Thanks, this is helpful. But I also doubt that life "is ergodic over a particular (somatic) timescale." What about grief, trauma, altered states of consciousness, conversion experiences, and all the (re)organizations resulting from them?
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And then there's rapid genetic exchange between bacteria...
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