I attended a talk a while back where Mario presented something similarhttps://twitter.com/Abebab/status/884735685848125440 …
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Writer, UBC Philosophy, Assoc Member Asian Studies & Psych Depts. Married to @beckettodd
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Abeba Birhane Retweeted Abeba Birhane
I attended a talk a while back where Mario presented something similarhttps://twitter.com/Abebab/status/884735685848125440 …
Abeba Birhane added,
In my view it is the body that enacts the world, and the nervous system is one organ in the body. Furthermore, the body itself extends into the world - there is no sharp distinction. /1
As Bonnita Roy said in @AE_Robbert 's podcast last week: When you sink deeper and deeper from the mind into the physical body, at some point you find yourself in "the world' instead of in "the mind". But where was the boundary? (There is no boundary)./2
So the mind is in the body and the body is not the physical body but - essentially - (either enacted or potential) action. For me the question would be whether that active body needs the concept of computation in explaining what it does. (Not saying it doesn't - but different
.. then asking whether an account of the *brain* needs computation. Finally - I am not convinced even the brain computes. It's a complex chemical system that generates electric pulses. Who says it is computing anything? How can we tell? (Other than assuming because obvious)?)
I always liked the up/downward causation between levels in autopoeisis, and also the ideas of coupling, and how the activity of coupling generates the membrane, how 'inner' and 'outer' spring from the activity (not the other way around). It used computation to talk about that.
(But I have no idea if Maturana and Varela thought about it that way)
Do you know if Maturana and/or Varela thought computation as *real* (in human cognition), or as instrument to explain things with, @evantthompson ? I believe I remember you said something about walking a thin line between these two options in the Embodied Mind book is that right?
For M&V it's real (operational) for someone doing (e.g.) math. It's not operational for the brain; it's an observer-relative description (relational).
Ah yes great that was what I was thinking about. I would agree I think: we can *do* computations, we had jobs doing it, we even built machines doing it, we learn it in school- but we are not ‘made out of it’.
This is such a helpful distinction.
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