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erikphoel's profile
Erik Hoel
Erik Hoel
Erik Hoel
@erikphoel

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Erik Hoel

@erikphoel

Writer and scientist. WARNING: reach may exceed grasp. https://tinyletter.com/erikhoel 

Cambridge, MA
erikphoel.com
Joined November 2013

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    1. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

      Erik Hoel Retweeted Neuroskeptic

      About this little article on strong/weak emergence in neuroscience that criticizes causal emergence. First, there's a few mistakes in terms of correct citations and in expression of the theory of causal emergence. Let's move past those and focus on the meat of the argument 1/nhttps://twitter.com/Neuro_Skeptic/status/1091678997547765760 …

      Erik Hoel added,

      Neuroskeptic @Neuro_Skeptic
      How Emergent is the Brain? http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2019/02/02/emergence-brain/#.XFWQu6DgqUk … New post! Turkheimer et al. criticize "strong emergence" in theories of the brain, but is it a strawman argument?
      4 replies 16 retweets 38 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

      2/ the article argues there can be no such thing as the kind of emergence shown in IIT (a form of causal emergence, since EI is basically an upper bound of phi). Why? Because philosophers distinguish between strong/weak emergence, & concluded that strong emergence is nonsensical

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

      3/ How relevant or correct is that philosophical judgement? Well, if you trace back their citations, why does anyone really think strong emergence is nonsensical? Kim's "exclusion argument."

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Show this thread
    4. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

      4/ In Kim's argument, any macro->macro causal relationship has some underlying micro->micro causal relationship, so therefore the true causation is the underlying one. The micro "excludes" the macro because ontologically there's no unaccounted causal work left over for the macro

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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    5. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

      5/ I don't spend a lot of time figuring out how to explain causal emergence philosophically since I'm not a professional philosopher. However, because of its influence, Kim's exclusion argument is cited and explicitly discussed in the paper that proposes causal emergence, in 2013

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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    6. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

      6/ Putting why causal emergence gets around the exclusion argument into philosophical language: it does so by two facts: a) causation is not binary but rather scalar, and b) causation at the macroscale can be vastly greater than at the underlying microscale.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      Show this thread
      Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

      7/ Kim would immediately say "but how can the macro do more causal work than the micro!" Because his view of causation is binary (is something a cause, yes or no) he misses that a lot of microscales have noise. Micro -> micro transitions are often noisy / unnecessary.

      6:54 AM - 2 Feb 2019
      • 2 Retweets
      • 11 Likes
      • Bursatil Biotech Kevin Mitchell Paul Harland i'm delicate Michael Anes Marco lin Neuroskeptic Adam J Calhoun
      1 reply 2 retweets 11 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

          8/ When there's noise/ no necessity in the micro causal relationships, a macro can eliminate noise or lack of necessity and therefore do what Kim calls "causal work." Ontologically macros do unaccounted causal work by error-correcting noise / necessity in micro causal relations!

          3 replies 2 retweets 14 likes
          Show this thread
        3. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

          9/ As macros get bigger and systems larger and more noisy, the amount of error-correction has no upper bound. However, it's also easy to prove that if a micro has no noise, and all its causal relationships are necessary, there's no causal emergence. So it's system dependent.

          2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
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        4. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

          10/ Causal emergence makes a really good case study of how a problem that seems insurmountable (exclusion) only seems that way from the armchair. How many other philosophical arguments (like, say, the zombie problem for consciousness) seem insurmountable but are really not?

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
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        5. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

          11/ I love analytic philosophy. It's been hugely influential both personally and professionally. Philosophy, taken broadly, is to me perhaps the grandest discipline. I'm not someone who thinks philosophy is all just fluff waiting to be replaced by science.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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        6. Erik Hoel‏ @erikphoel Feb 2

          12/ But ultimately, *a great deal* of contemporary analytic philosophy takes place at the level of human intuition, with its overly broad human-level concepts, and without any math or simulations. It is like they are all fighting with wooden swords.

          0 replies 2 retweets 16 likes
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        7. End of conversation

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