emptywheel on Twitter: "And it is a fundamental category error to imagine what has been going on in last year + 2 weeks involves that at all. There still IS a democracy out here, which is SUPPOSED to be the raison d'etre of the IC. And in that democracy persuasion and legitimacy are actually allowed.… https://t.co/pAlCpKtaiL"

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P̵̛wn̷̕̕ A̶͡ll͜͝͝ T̡̛̕h̷̶̀͠͡e̷̵̶̷ T̵͜͢h̸̸́͟i̕ng͝s͡‏ @pwnallthethings Jan 25

P̵̛wn̷̕̕ A̶͡ll͜͝͝ T̡̛̕h̷̶̀͠͡e̷̵̶̷ T̵͜͢h̸̸́͟i̕ng͝s͡ Retweeted Reuters World

Great worked example of the prove it trap in action. 1) what info does this report give away? 2) what ops might be burned by this? Should we care? 3) who is persuaded by this who wasn't persuaded last week? 4) what do we learn?https://twitter.com/ReutersWorld/status/956654692452438016?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E0 …

P̵̛wn̷̕̕ A̶͡ll͜͝͝ T̡̛̕h̷̶̀͠͡e̷̵̶̷ T̵͜͢h̸̸́͟i̕ng͝s͡ added,

Reuters WorldVerified account @ReutersWorld

Dutch intelligence agency spied on Russian hacking group: media http://reut.rs/2BtH0AK

14 replies 61 retweets 171 likes

emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 25

Replying to @pwnallthethings

Actually hearing a lot of people saying this is persuasive.

1 reply 2 retweets 15 likes

Jim White‏ @JimWhiteGNV Jan 25

Replying to @emptywheel @pwnallthethings

It made me fully convinced. I had always worried about the ability to spoof actions. But if Dutch were in Cozy Bear network and saw attack go out in real time, that's actual evidence that is convincing.

2 replies 3 retweets 15 likes

P̵̛wn̷̕̕ A̶͡ll͜͝͝ T̡̛̕h̷̶̀͠͡e̷̵̶̷ T̵͜͢h̸̸́͟i̕ng͝s͡‏ @pwnallthethings Jan 25

Replying to @JimWhiteGNV @emptywheel

It was widely publicized the DNC hack used APT28 infrastructure for control. This report adds nothing other than burning sources and capabilities which are now presumably gone forever.

4 replies 3 retweets 21 likes

emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 25

Replying to @pwnallthethings @JimWhiteGNV

Yes. To you it adds nothing. But others who don't have your institutional, um, faith don't find all that conclusive (& I bet a few details will still surprise you), but this is actually still better evidence (tho against 29, not 28).

5 replies 2 retweets 18 likes

P̵̛wn̷̕̕ A̶͡ll͜͝͝ T̡̛̕h̷̶̀͠͡e̷̵̶̷ T̵͜͢h̸̸́͟i̕ng͝s͡‏ @pwnallthethings Jan 25

Replying to @emptywheel @JimWhiteGNV

If by institutional faith you mean overwhelming consensus of the infosec community, sure. You don't need to trust the IC for the attribution. And losing coverage of hard targets is a high price to pay to persuade folks who haven't paid attention to the already public data.

4 replies 0 retweets 19 likes

emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 25

Replying to @pwnallthethings @JimWhiteGNV

Matt. You're banging the table again. You didn't need to convince me. And you banging the table is not going to help me convince others, to the extent I see the need to.

1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes

P̵̛wn̷̕̕ A̶͡ll͜͝͝ T̡̛̕h̷̶̀͠͡e̷̵̶̷ T̵͜͢h̸̸́͟i̕ng͝s͡‏ @pwnallthethings Jan 25

Replying to @emptywheel @JimWhiteGNV

I'm not trying to convince you.

2 replies 0 retweets 1 like

Themistocles' Wall‏ @themistocles_w Jan 25

Replying to @pwnallthethings @emptywheel @JimWhiteGNV

Most Americans won't believe the intel reports after the election - & the report released in Jan 2017 was a joke, tbh, not persuasive to skeptics at all Needed to be a clear presentation of declassifiable facts in Sept-Oct 2016, & even this might not have been enough

1 reply 2 retweets 2 likes

P̵̛wn̷̕̕ A̶͡ll͜͝͝ T̡̛̕h̷̶̀͠͡e̷̵̶̷ T̵͜͢h̸̸́͟i̕ng͝s͡‏ @pwnallthethings Jan 25

Replying to @themistocles_w @emptywheel @JimWhiteGNV

It is a fundamental category error to think the job of the IC includes ever persuading the public of anything, or that it ever can ever do that by disclosing sources and methods.

2 replies 3 retweets 6 likes

emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 25

Replying to @pwnallthethings @themistocles_w @JimWhiteGNV

And it is a fundamental category error to imagine what has been going on in last year + 2 weeks involves that at all. There still IS a democracy out here, which is SUPPOSED to be the raison d'etre of the IC. And in that democracy persuasion and legitimacy are actually allowed.

3:50 PM - 25 Jan 2018

2 Retweets
13 Likes

1 reply 2 retweets 13 likes

1. ʇᴉɯᴉl ɐɯǝɥɔs® ‏ @TimForgot Jan 25
  Replying to @emptywheel @pwnallthethings and
  
  There IS still a democracy out here. We have more than enough facts and experience to vote on.
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