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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
      Replying to @Marys_musings @qjurecic and

      Looking in PACER, even assuming you're the Mary Carney who has done the terrorism cases, I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Thanks for DOJ-splaining me about what the current standard is.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
      Replying to @emptywheel @Marys_musings and

      And, AGAIN, this is getting tedious. I'm not saying DOJ is lying. I'm saying the standard is NOT that you have to say where a lead came from. That's not lying. That's parallel construction.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Mary Carney‏ @Marys_musings Jan 18
      Replying to @emptywheel @qjurecic and

      I've asked you several times to tell me what the standard is. The tedious thing is that I tried to have a productive discussion & you're playing hide the ball & mocking me. If that's what you enjoy, that's fine. I'm cool w/leaving it at that you are right about everything.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
      Replying to @Marys_musings @qjurecic and

      The standard as applied, with a few exceptions (Mohamud--you've heard of him, I hope), is that only if the actual intercept content goes into trial is it noticed. Tips off back door searches or chat rooms don't.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Mary Carney‏ @Marys_musings Jan 18
      Replying to @emptywheel @qjurecic and

      3rd time - not discussing cases. As applied means what you believe it to be based on the low number of cases w/notice of which you are aware. But, as previously noted, you are right about everything, so we're good here. I hope you will join me in prayer for Brady's throwing hand.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
      Replying to @Marys_musings @qjurecic and

      So you want me to discuss cases (which I have, to which you haven't responded, or acknowledged) but you won't bc doing so would make it clear you HAVE used 702 in a case that wasn't noticed. Fair enough. The current standard is no one is getting notice. Zero.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Mary Carney‏ @Marys_musings Jan 18
      Replying to @emptywheel @qjurecic and

      Cool. I'm actually a stay-at-home mom of 12 and made all this stuff up, so it all worked out. Have a nice night!

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
      Replying to @Marys_musings @qjurecic and

      Your response to me discussing cases and you not was to suggest I was accusing you of making it all up. Not actually what I've said at all. I'm just someone on the Intertoobz who can count to 8 which seems to be more than DOJ transparency can handle.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Mary Carney‏ @Marys_musings Jan 18
      Replying to @emptywheel @qjurecic and

      Bottom line is that although you say you're not accusing DOJ of lying, that's exactly what you are doing (see transparency comment). I can't vouch for today's DOJ, but the DOJ I knew recently followed the derived from standard. I can't make you trust your government. Your choice.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
      Replying to @Marys_musings @qjurecic and

      Bottom line is, I'm saying DOJ parallel constructs, which Bob Litt has told me *quite proudly* they do. That's not lying. I'm also saying there's good reason to believe standards in CT cases are different than CI cases.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
      Replying to @emptywheel @Marys_musings and

      Again, if DOJ has only ever used 702 in 8+2 cases (or has instead adopted secret notice on a wider scale, which is a problem unto itself), then we can simply shut down FBI's access bc it's not all that useful.

      5:51 PM - 18 Jan 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Mary Carney‏ @Marys_musings Jan 18
          Replying to @emptywheel @qjurecic and

          Truly, you have a dizzying intellect. I already told you prosecution is not the only goal of intel collection. And now I am really done because you are very confident in your opinions and I don't really care if you believe me or your government. Have a nice night.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
          Replying to @Marys_musings @qjurecic and

          Truly. I've written about that too. But thanks for noting that child porn is often (not always) used to recruit informants. It's not that I don't believe you. It's that I do believe what the government puts in court documents, with which your statements conflict. I'm asking why.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Mary Carney‏ @Marys_musings Jan 18
          Replying to @emptywheel @qjurecic and

          Wow, you really do have a twisted view of the government. Recruitment with child porn? Yikes.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
          Replying to @Marys_musings @qjurecic and

          You do recall I already mentioned Gartenlaub, correct? Surely you're familiar w/Ted Olson saying they'd use rape to recruit people in In re Sealed case, right? Or are these govt documents too, according to you, also wrong?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Mary Carney‏ @Marys_musings Jan 18
          Replying to @emptywheel @qjurecic and

          Good night, Gracie.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
          Replying to @Marys_musings @qjurecic and

          When you're ready to discuss the public record in public cases I've cited repeatedly, I'm here, actually citing them. Until then, I'll trust that record over what you claim misciting PCLOB. Bc contrary to your suggestion I don't trust govt, I do trust the actual public record.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. End of conversation
        1. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 18
          Replying to @emptywheel @Marys_musings and

          Also, say, if 702 is only used in these cases, why does FBI need to share w/NCMEC?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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