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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. Sarah St.Vincent‏ @SarahStV_HRW Jan 17
      Replying to @emptywheel

      Oops, sorry -- I thought you were referring to the part about the use of Section 702 to make demands on companies to weaken encryption. I don't know why, since that seems like a distinct issue. I do wonder if the issue of entirely domestic communications is only about Tor/VPN.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 17
      Replying to @SarahStV_HRW

      430K Americans use Tor each day. Isn't that enough?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Sarah St.Vincent‏ @SarahStV_HRW Jan 17
      Replying to @emptywheel

      Sure, but I've wondered if there are additional aspects of it. Something about Wyden's emphasis on "knowing" collection of "entirely domestic" "communications" calls to mind something potentially even more straightforward.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 17
      Replying to @SarahStV_HRW

      It is straightforward. You suck off an exit node. Voila: Foreign traffic, domestic traffic. Weed out the domestic but in the process look for porn, CFAA violators, and BLM.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Sarah St.Vincent‏ @SarahStV_HRW Jan 17
      Replying to @emptywheel

      I wouldn't doubt it. From a tactical point of view, though, I'd be a bit surprised if Wyden were going to such lengths to highlight an activity that primarily involved something as strongly associated with CP in the public's mind as Tor. Open to the possibility that I'm wrong.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 17
      Replying to @SarahStV_HRW

      And also associated with dissidents. Is it your official position that it's cool NSA is sucking up dissident traffic and deciding whether it's criminal or not on the back side?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Sarah St.Vincent‏ @SarahStV_HRW Jan 17
      Replying to @emptywheel

      Of course not. Our view would no doubt be the human rights view that a government interference with privacy violates rights unless it's explicitly authorized by law, necessary, and proportionate (and non-discriminatory)

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 17
      Replying to @SarahStV_HRW

      Well, it is a collection that will get, in addition to CP and dark markets and the like, a significant proportion of dissident, journalist, and similar traffic. And NSA gets to review it and decide whether it's criminal.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Sarah St.Vincent‏ @SarahStV_HRW Jan 17
      Replying to @emptywheel

      I'm not disagreeing with those points at all. What I'm saying is that the vigor with which Wyden is pursuing this publicly suggests to me that it might not only be Tor/VPNs, which I think the public at large tends to view as associated with CP.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 17
      Replying to @SarahStV_HRW

      Well, that's a really luxurious position for those who have paid no price for actually reporting out the Tor story. Thanks for your certainty. So glad to see my work treated like shit, thanks.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 17
      Replying to @emptywheel @SarahStV_HRW

      I mean, if I could tell you what I had to do to to report this maybe THEN you'd believe rather than telling me I'm wrong when I'm the one who reported it but I can't do that so thanks for telling me I'm wrong.

      3:21 PM - 17 Jan 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Sarah St.Vincent‏ @SarahStV_HRW Jan 17
          Replying to @emptywheel

          I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying we may both be right. I mean no disrespect to your work whatsoever -- I can only speak for myself, but I rely on your analyses all the time.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 17
          Replying to @SarahStV_HRW

          Well, I take your comments not only as outright disrespect for my work but also as dismissal of the kinds of costs that reporting such stories can incur. So thanks. Glad you get a freebie relying on my work w/o having to pay any respect.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Sarah St.Vincent‏ @SarahStV_HRW Jan 17
          Replying to @emptywheel

          I have enormous respect for your work. You're an expert who makes huge contributions to our understanding of these issues. I'd never dream of saying otherwise. My goal was to field an idea, with nothing but respect, and I apologize that that seems to have misfired.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel Jan 17
          Replying to @SarahStV_HRW

          My goal was to try to reverse damaging willful ignorance and inactivity on the part of the privacy community. But nothing I have tried -- paying the cost to report this, screaming, telling people that maybe the person who reported this is in a better place to say -- has worked.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Sarah St.Vincent‏ @SarahStV_HRW Jan 17
          Replying to @emptywheel

          Thanks -- I understand this better after this exchange. Completely open to more conversation if you think it would be useful.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation

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