Gorski: Govt asserted this would result in rebuilding wall. Not correct. Use restriction on non-FI in no way affects govt's ability to communicate FI.
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Piersol: We don't know how it was encountered. As District, if I don't know enough I'm going to have expert for myself for court if that issues gets presented. Lewis; District may want to know, if challenge is raised. Piersol: Unusual case in District bc there's no advocate
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Piersol is a District Judge in ID, not a circuit judge. He's talking with the experience of a judge who has had to stand in for the adversarial position of the defendant. Lewis: District review not done in vacuum.
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Lewis: District review was not an abuse. Piersol: We have to review what District court did. Adopted order verbatim which you submitted. We're reviewing de novo, not abuse of discretion. Lewis: Multiple Circuits have held. Piersol: We're this one tho.
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Piersol: so we're supposed to disregard precedent in this circuit? Lewis: There is no precedent. Every circuit that has reached standard determined abuse of discretion. Franks: Defendant had access to a great deal of information.
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Lewis: WRT sufficiency of evidence. Piersol: they didn't argue that except in briefs. Lewis; I'll move on. Cleared counsel should have review. FISA says necessity up front. [Cline's going to hit this I bet.]
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Lewis: I believe I've touched on most of issues. Wardlaw: we're going to ask you to say after the hearing.
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Cline: Govt position is it can't pause FI investigation long enough to get a warrant. Saying it can't do what CDT says it has to do. Cline Minimization is not a Fourth amendment exception.
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Disclosure: in 39 year history, one court ordered disclosure. Never been disclosure. Look at legislative history. Congress clearly contemplated there wouldn't be disclosure. If ever case where disclosure warrant it'd be this case. cc:
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Piersol: let's say PD org nationally had lawyer TS cleared, in these kinds of cases, could be special counsel for top secret portion. Another way to address? Cline: there could be a system of that. [Remember Cline is amicus for the court]
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Cline: Enormous amounts of classified info disclosed to cleared defense lawyers. No difference in nuclear secrets disclosed in Wen Ho Lee (also remember PDB info disclosed in Libby).
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End of conversation
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