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emptywheel's profile
emptywheel
emptywheel
emptywheel
@emptywheel

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emptywheel

@emptywheel

Abundant tweets about civil liberties & national security. "Has a longer memory than an elephant & keeps more records than Jim Comey.” Legendary potty mouth.

Grand Rapids, MI
emptywheel.net
Joined August 2008

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    1. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 27 Nov 2017
      Replying to @MalwareJake @Bing_Chris @RecordedFuture

      Yes well we all bear our own legal exposures...

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Nick Carr‏ @ItsReallyNick 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @emptywheel @MalwareJake and

      In those roles, how much commercial espionage and intellectual property theft did you conduct?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Jake Williams‏ @MalwareJake 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ItsReallyNick @emptywheel and

      You know I can't confirm or deny what I did. But let's talk about norms. If they are following their laws/orders, are we okay charging?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. David J. Bianco‏ @DavidJBianco 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @MalwareJake @Bing_Chris and

      Just because they are following orders from their gov doesn't mean that they are not breaking our laws. We may not be able to put them in jail, but at least we're not tacitly giving them the OK by ignoring them.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @DavidJBianco @MalwareJake and

      Just because Jake was following orders from our gov doesn't mean he wasn't breaking the laws of other countries.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. David J. Bianco‏ @DavidJBianco 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @emptywheel @Bing_Chris and

      Yes, that's also true,but I'm not sure I see your point. We identified actors behind keyboards. Is it best to just shrug it off?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Jake Williams‏ @MalwareJake 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @DavidJBianco @emptywheel and

      This is a diplomatic issue, not a criminal one. DOJ assumes that by charging hackers they'll discourage others from wanting to do the work.

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. David J. Bianco‏ @DavidJBianco 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @MalwareJake @emptywheel and

      Yes, and I admit that that assumption is not proven. But I'm also not sure what a real diplomatic solution would look like, or whether it could actually be effective. I think this indictment is a pretty reasonable action, all considered.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Jake Williams‏ @MalwareJake 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @DavidJBianco @emptywheel and

      It's easy to see indictment as "a pretty reasonable action" when it likely won't happen to you. Are you okay with foreign nations charging US government hackers?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Jerin Saji‏ @JerinSaji0 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @MalwareJake @DavidJBianco and

      Have their been cases before of US persons being charged by a foreign govt for cyber espionage? That would be a fascinating read.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 28 Nov 2017
      Replying to @JerinSaji0 @MalwareJake and

      Iran accuses Americans it catches of that. Like this guy:https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/an-american-is-caught-in-irans-spy-game/2012/01/23/gIQAw8Z3LQ_story.html?utm_term=.a075b598782d …

      7:49 AM - 28 Nov 2017
      • 1 Like
      • Jerin Saji
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        1. Jerin Saji‏ @JerinSaji0 28 Nov 2017
          Replying to @emptywheel @MalwareJake and

          Thank you! Although I do think this is a bit different b/c he [allegedly] was a spy and directly went to Iran and got caught there. Are you aware of any cases of foreign criminal cases involving US hackers stationed in the US? (1/2)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        2. Jerin Saji‏ @JerinSaji0 28 Nov 2017
          Replying to @JerinSaji0 @emptywheel and

          (2/2) It's interesting to me how I see cases of foreign national hackers being identified and charged for specific cyber operations/espionage but barely nothing involving similar cases with hackers within our IC.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. emptywheel‏ @emptywheel 28 Nov 2017
          Replying to @JerinSaji0 @MalwareJake and

          Right. That's arguably bc we're playing by different rules. RU would say the same happened when we arrested their version of Erik Prince, Viktor Bout.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Jerin Saji‏ @JerinSaji0 28 Nov 2017
          Replying to @emptywheel @MalwareJake and

          Fascinating! I hadn't heard of him. Do you think something like this has to happen for a diplomatic talk and agreement to happen? I was under the impression that some of the talks as a follow-up to the APT1 report was to do exactly this - establish the rules of cyber espionage.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
          5. End of conversation

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